The U.S Voting Systems

[indyartisan]

The Inputs and Outputs to our voting systems ARE unverifiable
We need:
Verifiable inputs: e.g. Permanent Voter Registration Card
Open source software
Handmarked paper ballots
Save ballot images pursuant to Federal law
Publish ballot images publicly (to allow public recount)
Automatic audits - audit every election
Publish precinct level data (poll tapes) on election night.

I am drafting yet another letter for my representatives
Any thoughts on how we can improve on the current system appreciated.

 

[Ingomike]

Thumb in indelible ink maybe?

 

[CampingJosh]

One of the difficulties is that free elections require anonymous ballots.

But I agree that our current system, especially with the electronic voting machines in Indiana, could be gamed.

 

[Tombs]

It's pretty easy to create a better system. Go to a Defcon hacker conference and offer a large sum of money for who ever could develop the most secure and user friendly voting system.

Then offer gigantic cash bounties and employment options for anyone who could defeat this system. Do this repeatedly, do constant testing and penetration testing.
Encourage people to try to rig and cheat it with bounties offered.

With enough time you will have a system that is so robust that the undertaking involved to game or cheat the system would be so absurdly tedious and useless that hacking it wouldn't accomplish anything.

You also won't need poll workers anymore, and you will have far more enfranchisement.

 

[Old Dog]

It's pretty easy to create a better system. Go to a Defcon hacker conference and offer a large sum of money for who ever could develop the most secure and user friendly voting system.

Then offer gigantic cash bounties and employment options for anyone who could defeat this system. Do this repeatedly, do constant testing and penetration testing.
Encourage people to try to rig and cheat it with bounties offered.

With enough time you will have a system that is so robust that the undertaking involved to game or cheat the system would be so absurdly tedious and useless that hacking it wouldn't accomplish anything.

You also won't need poll workers anymore, and you will have far more enfranchisement.

But that will never happen because neither side could mess with the results, therefore they will never fund nor approve such an effort.

 

[indyartisan]

Join me in contacting your representatives and demanding they reform the current system.
What better time than now.

 

[Twangbanger]

But that will never happen because neither side could mess with the results, therefore they will never fund nor approve such an effort.

Ab-so-tively. Developing the "system that ends all systems" can be done, but who is going to cut the Purchase Order for it? The development cost and beta-testing are probably beyond the ability of any private organization to fund without a guarantee of adoption or payback. They are going to have to front every single bit of the development cost, it will have to be tested in a real election beta environment to stress-test robustness, and there will be resistance to implementation all along the way.

And crossing over from technical problem-solving to "conspiracy" territory...once "Election Day" becomes "Election Month," it's really not an Election anymore - it's an Activism Contest. The window for adoption of the "perfect system" gets narrower and narrower every day, because after the "Red Mirage" on election night 2020, the Democrats have now clearly seen in real-time just exactly what a diamond in the rough they have in mail voting. They have stumbled upon a method which can be perfected election after election until it gives the exact result they want (as long as they can keep the courts from reining it in).

 

[Tombs]

Ab-so-tively. Developing the "system that ends all systems" can be done, but who is going to cut the Purchase Order for it? The development cost and beta-testing are probably beyond the ability of any private organization to fund without a guarantee of adoption or payback. They are going to have to front every single bit of the development cost, it will have to be tested in a real election beta environment to stress-test robustness, and there will be resistance to implementation all along the way.

And crossing over from technical problem-solving to "conspiracy" territory...once "Election Day" becomes "Election Month," it's really not an Election anymore - it's an Activism Contest. The window for adoption of the "perfect system" gets narrower and narrower every day, because after the "Red Mirage" on election night 2020, the Democrats have now clearly seen in real-time just exactly what a diamond in the rough they have in mail voting. They have stumbled upon a method which can be perfected election after election until it gives the exact result they want (as long as they can keep the courts from reigning it in).

We went to the moon with nothing more than pencils and drafting tables.

We can absolutely develop a secure voting system, it's just a matter of whether there's a will for it.

 

[cosermann]

I was an information systems auditor for 7 years and now work in a slightly different area with several security engineers.

I remember the first time I heard about computerized "voting systems" and I thought, "no way." Given the risks involved, there's just about no way to secure them adequately at reasonable cost. Forget about it.

Way cheaper and better to do it with paper ballots. If one is going to engage in widespread fraud with paper, at least there are physical limitations (have to mfg the ballots, move them etc.), and physical evidence.

With the IT systems it's WAY easier to do a tweak and boom, instant 100k, 100M, or however many ballots for whomever, and it's WAY easier to cover one's tracks. It doesn't work like it does in the movies.

I'm all for making election day a national holiday. Send in your absentee ballot, or show up in person - or don't vote. Simple. The whole mail-in ballot thing is nuts too.

Computerized systems and mail-in balloting will turn our voting system into the envy of banana republics everywhere.

 

[CampingJosh]

I'm all for making election day a national holiday.

I don't think that we have a shortage of bankers and government employees having the opportunity to vote. And basically no one else's work schedule will be changed by a national holiday.

 

[drillsgt]

I was an information systems auditor for 7 years and now work in a slightly different area with several security engineers.

I remember the first time I heard about computerized "voting systems" and I thought, "no way." Given the risks involved, there's just about no way to secure them adequately at reasonable cost. Forget about it.

Way cheaper and better to do it with paper ballots. If one is going to engage in widespread fraud with paper, at least there are physical limitations (have to mfg the ballots, move them etc.), and physical evidence.

With the IT systems it's WAY easier to do a tweak and boom, instant 100k, 100M, or however many ballots for whomever, and it's WAY easier to cover one's tracks. It doesn't work like it does in the movies.

I'm all for making election day a national holiday. Send in your absentee ballot, or show up in person - or don't vote. Simple. The whole mail-in ballot thing is nuts too.

Computerized systems and mail-in balloting will turn our voting system into the envy of banana republics everywhere.

I don't see the need for a holiday, especially in Indiana, if you couldn't find time to vote that was your own fault. No mail in ballots and definitely no unsolicited mailed out ballots but specifically requesting an absentee ballot is okay.

 

[JettaKnight]

I don't see the need for a holiday, especially in Indiana, if you couldn't find time to vote that was your own fault. No mail in ballots and definitely no unsolicited mailed out ballots but specifically requesting an absentee ballot is okay.

Exactly. Polls are open for weeks leading up to election day.

 

[BugI02]

I don't see the need for a holiday, especially in Indiana, if you couldn't find time to vote that was your own fault. No mail in ballots and definitely no unsolicited mailed out ballots but specifically requesting an absentee ballot is okay.

Exactly. Polls are open for weeks leading up to election day.

But timeliness, attention to detail and goal setting are all tools of the white patriarchy

Why do you want to disenfranchise low effort voters

 

[JettaKnight]

But timeliness, attention to detail and goal setting are all tools of the white patriarchy

Why do you want to disenfranchise low effort voters

I remember that poster & campaign.

 

[CampingJosh]

But timeliness, attention to detail and goal setting are all tools of the white patriarchy

Why do you want to disenfranchise low effort voters

In my extremely white county, voting took me less than 5 minutes from the time I parked the truck. My friends in Marion County waited for longer than 3 hours.

Having to wait that long is really unacceptable. Voting should be quick and easy. Making productive citizens stand around and do nothing for hours on end when they could be working is a waste.

 

[BugI02]

In my extremely white county, voting took me less than 5 minutes from the time I parked the truck. My friends in Marion County waited for longer than 3 hours.

Having to wait that long is really unacceptable. Voting should be quick and easy. Making productive citizens stand around and do nothing for hours on end when they could be working is a waste.

Perhaps it would be instructive to make a comparison between the population of your county and that of Marion county. Could the difference be related to sheer volume?

 

[Jaybird1980]

Maybe a set number of polling places per a certain amount population. 1 polling place for every 5-10k registered voters, and make them all early voting also. Our county has 21k people and 8 polling locations.

 

[eldirector]

Making productive citizens stand around and do nothing for hours on end when they could be working is [STRIKE]a waste.[/STRIKE]

is exactly the fundamental purpose of government.

Voting could be easy.
Voting could be secure.

Because it isn't, one has to assume it is by design.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Maybe a set number of polling places per a certain amount population. 1 polling place for every 5-10k registered voters, and make them all early voting also. Our county has 21k people and 8 polling locations.

And Marion County has ~600K registered voters yet only had 5 early voting sites. 6 if you count Lucas Oil Stadium, but that was only on the last weekend of early voting. I tried to vote early 3 separate times but I didn't have the 3-4 hours to spare to stand in line, so I waited until election day when they had 180+ sites open.

 

[CampingJosh]

Perhaps it would be instructive to make a comparison between the population of your county and that of Marion county. Could the difference be related to sheer volume?

The sheer volume isn't a surprise to anyone, so there should have been way more voting machines and locations available in Marion County.