The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[jamil]

Well let's remember that virtue-signaling isn't the only reason to own an EV. I'd probably own a Tesla if it weren't for all the reasons I've stated in this thread not to own one. But for some people those reasons aren't as important. And the couple of people I know who own them bought them for their geek-appeal, not to signal any virtue. Obviously many people do buy them to signal their climate virtue.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Know your route. Know where the charging stations are.

Journalists Tow Camper Behind Electric Truck, End in Stunning Failure When They Only Make it 85 Miles

Wow! We can go 160 miles before charging! Or make that 150. Or quick, we need to find a charging station right now!

www.westernjournal.com

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Well let's remember that virtue-signaling isn't the only reason to own an EV. I'd probably own a Tesla if it weren't for all the reasons I've stated in this thread not to own one. But for some people those reasons aren't as important. And the couple of people I know who own them bought them for their geek-appeal, not to signal any virtue. Obviously many people do buy them to signal their climate virtue.

Of course. The premise though was directed at the lefty/greenies, not the tech geeks. In a venn diagram they may overlap but we both know people that are the latter and by no means any part of the former.

 

[Ingomike]

Know your route. Know where the charging stations are.

Journalists Tow Camper Behind Electric Truck, End in Stunning Failure When They Only Make it 85 Miles

Wow! We can go 160 miles before charging! Or make that 150. Or quick, we need to find a charging station right now!

www.westernjournal.com

Here is the punch line.

“But that estimate was optimistic. The electric truck had only traveled 6 miles when the computer recalculated range from 160 to 150 miles, cutting things very close if it was to reach Pueblo. That called for a change of plans — the new charging stop was Colorado Springs, about 45 miles closer.”

“After going 50 miles, the electric truck recalculated its range to indicate it couldn’t even make Colorado Springs. South of Denver, the truck was down to a 20 percent battery charge and, concerned about being stranded with a dead battery, the driver had to turn around and drive the F150 back north to the Denver exurb of Castle Rock to find a fast charger.”

The calculations of onboard computers cannot be relied on…

 

[eldirector]

The calculations of onboard computers cannot be relied on…

I wonder how one would hand-calc mileage in an electric truck?

 

[Ingomike]

I wonder how one would hand-calc mileage in an electric truck?

I doubt you can short of being an engineer/math whiz. I suspect there are so many variables, battery strength and age for one, that it may be impossible to calculate accurately…

 

[RumHam90Proof]

Three of my biggest issues with EVs are that:
1. They rely heavily on Chinese industry for lithium, and I hate the idea of us being partially dependent on a communist country that hates us.
2. They are extremely heavy, if large amounts of the population switched to EVs we would be wearing out our roads a lot faster
3. EVs are going to cause a massive loss in the right to repair for normal people. take tesla, if you don't take it to a tesla shop for repairs they'll brick your car like an old phone. letting companies have that much control over the thing you use to go to work and support yourself is dangerous and we can't give that up lightly. even if you don't do your own vehicle maintenance that should concern everyone.

 

[RumHam90Proof]

I doubt you can short of being an engineer/math whiz. I suspect there are so many variables, battery strength and age for one, that it may be impossible to calculate accurately…

wind, temperature, humidity, how much you're drafting behind other vehicles, your tire quality and pressure for rolling resistance, the list goes on. just last week at Road America a team guessed fuel consumption wrong by 8 laps, and they have a team of top engineers working on that. obviously thats gas not electricty but the factors that play into it are mostly the same.

 

[Ingomike]

Three of my biggest issues with EVs are that:
1. They rely heavily on Chinese industry for lithium, and I hate the idea of us being partially dependent on a communist country that hates us.
2. They are extremely heavy, if large amounts of the population switched to EVs we would be wearing out our roads a lot faster
3. EVs are going to cause a massive loss in the right to repair for normal people. take tesla, if you don't take it to a tesla shop for repairs they'll brick your car like an old phone. letting companies have that much control over the thing you use to go to work and support yourself is dangerous and we can't give that up lightly. even if you don't do your own vehicle maintenance that should concern everyone.

Do you realize that newer ICV cars also have proprietary software the user cannot alter as even though you bought the car the mfg still owns the software that runs it. Not unique to EV’s…

 

[KLB]

The calculations of onboard computers cannot be relied on…

Exactly. Does anyone rely on the miles to empty for their gas car? I know I don't use it as anything more than a guideline. Go from driving conservatively to really pushing it and watch that range plummet.

 

[Percolater]

Three of my biggest issues with EVs are that:
1. They rely heavily on Chinese industry for lithium, and I hate the idea of us being partially dependent on a communist country that hates us.
2. They are extremely heavy, if large amounts of the population switched to EVs we would be wearing out our roads a lot faster
3. EVs are going to cause a massive loss in the right to repair for normal people. take tesla, if you don't take it to a tesla shop for repairs they'll brick your car like an old phone. letting companies have that much control over the thing you use to go to work and support yourself is dangerous and we can't give that up lightly. even if you don't do your own vehicle maintenance that should concern everyone.

Since you attack Tesla(fanboy here), I’ll call out your FUD. Quick searches prove all your issues incorrect, but spreading Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt is typical and understandable during change.
1) 100% Tesla lithium from Australia and Argentina(per impact report). Chile mines the most by far, China is currently 4th respectively. https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf

2) Honestly, never thought EVs weighed significantly more since they have thousands of less parts. I mean, the battery weighs a ton, but a quick search shows me comparable to the lightest luxury’s Audi and BMW (attached). Is it really “extremely heavy”?

3) There’s really nothing to repair or maintain, so is it really a “massive loss”? Tires and wiper fluid are all that I’ve seen over 4 years and 4 EVs. Currently, a damaged EV would need serviced by a skilled technician, I’m not trusting the mechanic who’s never seen one. “Bricking” your vehicle would destroy customer relationships, can’t see that happening sorry.

 

[jamil]

I am good with all of the lefty/greenies going with electric cars, so that the rest of us can drive our normal cars


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I wouldn't say that I'm "lefty/greenie" and I'd like to have an electric car. At my age it's just not a priority, but I'd totally geek out with one. So there are a lot more reasons to want an electric car than left-wing enviro reasons. But as technology improves, there won't be many more reasons to cling to petroleum powered vehicles other than because it's what you know/have. Conservatives like to keep things the same. The world will keep moving and drag them along kicking and screaming.

I think ICE should remain available as long as there's a demand and is viable. But also, I think even if left to the markets, the future will phase them out. Along the way, eventually gas stations will fade out of prominence. Businesses which have primarily some other purpose (stores/restaurants/entertainment) will have charging stations.

It may not even be that battery/electric is the technology that displaces ICE in the market. I think it depends on which tech gets better faster. Not much left to improve on petroleum fueled ICE, so it won't be able to keep up. I think that will take awhile though. So those old enough to drive now would live long enough to keep their ICE vehicles if things are left to the market to sort out. So if you're hell bent on keeping your "normal car" you should be able to do it.

 

[jamil]

Exactly. Does anyone rely on the miles to empty for their gas car? I know I don't use it as anything more than a guideline. Go from driving conservatively to really pushing it and watch that range plummet.

But, miles until empty has never failed me yet. I think it depends on how close you try to get to it. Closest I've gotten is about 20 miles. And when I filled up, I put in about a gallon short of the volume of the tank. So it was pretty close. You better bet I babied it. I was sweating it because I wasn't sure I'd make it to the next exit.

I check my mileage manually every now and again to see how close the estimated mpg is. It's usually within .5 mpg. Not perfect. But close enough.

It's funny how you drive like you don't want to slip on ice when you're low on gas hunting for a station. And then after you fill up, your fuel efficiency mindset gets thrown out the window. Back to fast starts/stops/speed.

 

[Hawkeye]

If it makes you feel better about that $150 registration fee, which is meant to substitute for gasoline tax, with Indiana's 320 gallon average gasoline consumption per driver, at this point, the state gas tax totals $198.40 a year. Add the federal tax and that average driver pays another $58.56 for a total of over $250.

I understand that on a totally electric vehicle. But my wife's hybrid also pays an additional registration fee. Theoretically, because we are paying less fuel tax. But its gas mileage is not markedly higher than my Outback.

 

[KLB]

But, miles until empty has never failed me yet. I think it depends on how close you try to get to it. Closest I've gotten is about 20 miles. And when I filled up, I put in about a gallon short of the volume of the tank. So it was pretty close. You better bet I babied it. I was sweating it because I wasn't sure I'd make it to the next exit.

I check my mileage manually every now and again to see how close the estimated mpg is. It's usually within .5 mpg. Not perfect. But close enough.

It's funny how you drive like you don't want to slip on ice when you're low on gas hunting for a station. And then after you fill up, your fuel efficiency mindset gets thrown out the window. Back to fast starts/stops/speed.

I'm always on the go fast mindset. I don't let the car get much below 1/4 tank if that before I fill it.

 

[RumHam90Proof]

3) There’s really nothing to repair or maintain, so is it really a “massive loss”? Tires and wiper fluid are all that I’ve seen over 4 years and 4 EVs. Currently, a damaged EV would need serviced by a skilled technician, I’m not trusting the mechanic who’s never seen one. “Bricking” your vehicle would destroy customer relationships, can’t see that happening sorry.

Losing the right to repair is a massive loss, once manufacturers have a monopoly on repairs they can charge you whatever they want. Four years is not a lot of time for a car, the average car spends around 12 years on the road, my truck is 16 years old and I've only ever had to change tires and do very basic maintenance that anyone with some free time and access to YouTube can do. I would consider Rich Benoit a skilled technician as he's fully rebuilt Tesla's by himself, but you'd still be locked out of supercharging and other features if you took your vehicle to him for a repair. You would think that bricking someone's car would destroy customer relationships, but you'd also think being locked out of your own car because of a 500 server error would do the same, but people keep buying them.

I will say a lot of my issues are not specifically with EVs but the unnecessary addition of computers to cars in general. like INGOMike said, proprietary software is an issue with all new vehicles.

Here's a link to Rich Benoit's YouTube channel if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA

 

[wtburnette]

I'm always on the go fast mindset. I don't let the car get much below 1/4 tank if that before I fill it.

Not me, since I'm using Kroger points, I wait until I'm under 50 miles left to go, preferably lower than that since the Kroger by me is less than 2 miles away.

 

[KLB]

I will say a lot of my issues are not specifically with EVs but the unnecessary addition of computers to cars in general. like INGOMike said, proprietary software is an issue with all new vehicles.

This is already being fought in the courts. Farmers have been on the front lines of the fight.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Not me, since I'm using Kroger points, I wait until I'm under 50 miles left to go, preferably lower than that since the Kroger by me is less than 2 miles away.

Gas cans! Several times a year, we’ll reach the point where our points are about to expire. (Since my wife works from home now, we don’t drive as much as we used to…and I often forget about it since it’s out of my way to go to that particular station). To let those points just disappear, we’ve been known to show up with gas cans to make sure we get as much of that 35 gallon limit as we can.

 

[KLB]

Not me, since I'm using Kroger points, I wait until I'm under 50 miles left to go, preferably lower than that since the Kroger by me is less than 2 miles away.

I drove 56 miles each way to work into Chicago for 15 years. Driving into Chicago you never know when you are going to get stuck in traffic for a long time. Having enough gas for that gets ingrained after a while. Plus in the Winter I always keep my car fueled because you never know what will happen.

Not to mention, there isn't much within 2 miles of my house.