The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[littletommy]

I missed that. I had to look it up.

I honestly didn't realize there was a marked difference in wind speeds from day to night. I learned something new today.

Why does the wind diminish after sunset?

A reader wrote us last week with two questions prompted by careful observation: 1. Why does the wind speed tend to decrease after sunset? 2. Why does this effect seem less pronounced in late autumn and winter? Continue reading →

wxguys.ssec.wisc.edu

I did a construction job in Kansas years ago, and where we were, it was a constant 20 mph wind all day, until just before sundown, when the wind would just stop completely.

 

[jamil]

Not a disaster, no. That is as long as you don’t mind waiting hours for your turn at the charger. Even on busy holiday travel days when it seems every gas station is busy, you don’t have to wait as long for your turn at the pump as you’ll surely have to wait at one of these “fast“ chargers.

The market would sort this out. Government involvement, forcing the situation will surely corrupt it and make it a train wreck.

But that’s assuming today’s infrastructure. Government is just gonna drag its pecker all over that. If we can overcome the pressure to become communist, in which case none of this would matter anyway, EV’s aren’t currently viable as direct replacements for ICE vehicles.

But in some niches, they are. I don’t think with current charging rates, any extended trip is as practical as ICE, notwithstanding the intentionally inflated fossil fuel cost. But eventually the infrastructure, and battery technology will make EV’s more practical. Like I mentioned upthread, the lithium sulfur batteries would be a game changer. Faster charging rates and twice or more the energy density.

But yeah, it would be better all around if these changes came about through the natural market.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

But that’s assuming today’s infrastructure. Government is just gonna drag its pecker all over that. If we can overcome the pressure to become communist, in which case none of this would matter anyway, EV’s aren’t currently viable as direct replacements for ICE vehicles.

But in some niches, they are. I don’t think with current charging rates, any extended trip is as practical as ICE, notwithstanding the intentionally inflated fossil fuel cost. But eventually the infrastructure, and battery technology will make EV’s more practical. Like I mentioned upthread, the lithium sulfur batteries would be a game changer. Faster charging rates and twice or more the energy density.

But yeah, it would be better all around if these changes came about through the natural market.

With the NIMBY sentiment all around, with the push to eliminate reliable energy sources in favor of voodoo sources, is there really any likelihood of a better infrastructure?

 

[jamil]

With the NIMBY sentiment all around, with the push to eliminate reliable energy sources in favor of voodoo sources, is there really any likelihood of a better infrastructure?

I think the long-term viability of fossil fuel sources is dubious. I mean it's not completely non-renewable, but just that we consume it faster than it can renew.

But lithium isn't a renewable source of energy either. But, rather than simply consuming it like we do fossil fuels, we use it to build devices that store energy produced by other means. It's just ironic that the energy we store with it is largely from fossil fuels.

I wouldn't call them voodoo sources though. Solar, wind, water, even nuclear, are viable sources of energy. It's not at no cost though. Solar and wind costs in terms of resources: land that could be used for other purposes. Like the more important parts of life: bacon. I think that eventually alternative or so-called "renewable" sources of energy would have developed on their own naturally. I don't like that it's the crony green industrial complex pushing this stuff.

I tell my SIL who is a rabid progressive climate activist sort. In other words, she types from her keyboard about how "green" she is. I asked her this. Assume that there IS a green industrial complex making money off of the relationship between government and green energy companies. Would she be able to detect it? She can sure spot the poor arguments from the other side. Can she spot the ones from hers? The answer was something to the effect that we're at the point now where how we get there isn't as important as that we get there. That's another way of saying the ends justify the means.

I think we'll get there eventually out of necessity, because fossil fuels won't be sustainable unless we consume at a rate equal to or less than they become available naturally.

 

[Percolater]

A couple real costs that don’t get mentioned much include higher insurance premiums (mine is at least 50% higher), and annual EV registration fee of $150.
Elon is working on lowering cost of Tesla insurance out west, but will take years to expand to Indiana.

 

[KLB]

A couple real costs that don’t get mentioned much include higher insurance premiums (mine is at least 50% higher), and annual EV registration fee of $150.
Elon is working on lowering cost of Tesla insurance out west, but will take years to expand to Indiana.

What's the excuse for higher premiums?

 

[indyblue]

What's the excuse for higher premiums?

The only difference is that insurance for an electric car is pricier than that of a conventional car,” says Carter, who founded a Zippy Electrics, a gadget review site. “The reason behind this is because electric cars are far more expensive and easy to damage than a car run by gas.”

 

[KLB]

So a 60K gas car is less expensive than a 60K electric?

 

[indyblue]

They must’ve left something out of that quote because other articles I read about it mentioned the expense of repairs to EV‘s versus ICE.

There is almost nothing on an EV that you can fix DIY.

 

[HoughMade]

So a 60K gas car is less expensive than a 60K electric?

Repairs are more expensive.

 

[Percolater]

What's the excuse for higher premiums?

1) More vulnerable to sensor based applications damage.
2) parts are more likely to be replaced than repaired
3) Parts are more expensive
4) Considered totaled more often, probably due to parts cost, time to repair, technician skill level, etc.
Once the market evolves to be more competitive with parts suppliers, and a lower cost realization of personal injury/ security, I believe the rates will come down.
Tesla already has all this data from cars on the road, and is offering insurance at a fair cost.

 

[Leadeye]

This wouldn't be because insurance companies think they can get more money out of the people who drive them would it.

 

[HoughMade]

A couple real costs that don’t get mentioned much include higher insurance premiums (mine is at least 50% higher), and annual EV registration fee of $150.
Elon is working on lowering cost of Tesla insurance out west, but will take years to expand to Indiana.

If it makes you feel better about that $150 registration fee, which is meant to substitute for gasoline tax, with Indiana's 320 gallon average gasoline consumption per driver, at this point, the state gas tax totals $198.40 a year. Add the federal tax and that average driver pays another $58.56 for a total of over $250.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Repairs are more expensive.

This.

If it makes you feel better about that $150 registration fee, which is meant to substitute for gasoline tax, with Indiana's 320 gallon average gasoline consumption per driver, at this point, the state gas tax totals $198.40 a year. Add the federal tax and that average driver pays another $58.56 for a total of over $250.

And this.

 

[Flingarrows]

I think the long-term viability of fossil fuel sources is dubious. I mean it's not completely non-renewable, but just that we consume it faster than it can renew.

But lithium isn't a renewable source of energy either. But, rather than simply consuming it like we do fossil fuels, we use it to build devices that store energy produced by other means. It's just ironic that the energy we store with it is largely from fossil fuels.

I wouldn't call them voodoo sources though. Solar, wind, water, even nuclear, are viable sources of energy. It's not at no cost though. Solar and wind costs in terms of resources: land that could be used for other purposes. Like the more important parts of life: bacon. I think that eventually alternative or so-called "renewable" sources of energy would have developed on their own naturally. I don't like that it's the crony green industrial complex pushing this stuff.

I tell my SIL who is a rabid progressive climate activist sort. In other words, she types from her keyboard about how "green" she is. I asked her this. Assume that there IS a green industrial complex making money off of the relationship between government and green energy companies. Would she be able to detect it? She can sure spot the poor arguments from the other side. Can she spot the ones from hers? The answer was something to the effect that we're at the point now where how we get there isn't as important as that we get there. That's another way of saying the ends justify the means.

I think we'll get there eventually out of necessity, because fossil fuels won't be sustainable unless we consume at a rate equal to or less than they become available naturally.

I am good with all of the lefty/greenies going with electric cars, so that the rest of us can drive our normal cars


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[Ingomike]

I am good with all of the lefty/greenies going with electric cars, so that the rest of us can drive our normal cars


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The left is not satisfied with this arrangement…

 

[jamil]

What's the excuse for higher premiums?

I saw a youtube video...can't remember the guy's name but many videos of him building EV's from scrap. He bought one from some guy who hit a pothole and did $18K damage to a rear wheel and motor. An EV doesn't HAVE to cost that much to fix stuff. But Teslas kinda do. TFL had a series of videos of their experience getting their long term Tesla fixed after the dumb ass kid backed it into something. I think Tesla makes a very interesting car. Lots of cool tech that a geek like me just drools over. But. Nah. It's not that I'm not ready for them. They're not ready for me.

 

[jamil]

So a 60K gas car is less expensive than a 60K electric?

More expensive to repair, and easier to damage.

 

[Percolater]

Proud to buy American, even when the government doesn’t recognize the brand.

Tesla Wins American-Made Index with 4 of 10 Most American-Made Cars

Tesla’s electric vehicles account for so many of the country’s top 10 most American-made vehicles, U.S. automaker.

cleantechnica.com

Ford Mustang has a steep fall from #2 last year, and the Mach E is made in Mexico. Honda/Acura is now more American made than Ford.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2022-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-451057/

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I am good with all of the lefty/greenies going with electric cars, so that the rest of us can drive our normal cars


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They used to be fine with their smug virtue signaling. Not anymore. They demand the government force you (with the implied threat of deadly force) to join them.