Taqueria robber shot dead by patron. video /bad shoot?

[SheepDog4Life]

wouldnt that be a bad shoot because he was leaving the store , no direct threat at that time.? MHO. I am not sure.

Was he? He had not left and was still waving the gun around... had he left and was running away down the sidewalk, that might be different.

ETA: Watch the video again... when the first shot rang out, the perp was literally pointing the gun at the customer in the corner.

And the tone here would be completely different. Something something executioner something something.

Maybe, maybe not... I can only answer from my own perspective and opinion. I see it the same whether cop or civvy in this situation.

I had zero issues with any of the shots save the last, as it APPEARS he already has control of the perps gun. Perhaps the perp attempted to grab the gun back or made some other movement... not automatically saying the last was bad, just that it needs a bit of justifying.

And leaving the scene is a bad look... which definitely would not occur in an OIS. It's not like he feared for retaliation from an unseen accomplice as he stuck around to divvy up the cash the robber took. Hard to "unsee" those parts.

Best case would be something like he realized the gun was fake, threw it against the wall, thought he was ****ed and panicked.

Prior to that last shot, perp APPEARS to still have the gun in his hand even though he's on the ground. Gun in hand still equals threat to me...

IMO, he really needs to appear with his attorney before charges get filed and that ball starts rolling and is hard to stop.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Maybe, maybe not... I can only answer from my own perspective and opinion. I see it the same whether cop or civvy in this situation.

There's no maybe. Individuals will have their own opinions, but it's not like we don't have a ton of threads on INGO about questions surrounding police shootings. It's pretty simple to compare the overall tone.

 

[cg21]

There's no maybe. Individuals will have their own opinions, but it's not like we don't have a ton of threads on INGO about questions surrounding police shootings. It's pretty simple to compare the overall tone.

But a police officer is also expected to control adrenaline / fear through superior and continuous training. That’s why they are held to a higher standard it is their job to go INTO chaotic situations. (Yes I understand they are humans just my opinion as to why it maybe viewed differently if it were officer involved not saying it is right or wrong)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

But a police officer is also expected to control adrenaline / fear through superior and continuous training.

You can be a police officer in Indiana with a 40 hour pre-basic. People are human, the badge doesn't change that, and someone's first shooting is their first shooting. The number of departments doing realistic stress training is low and getting lower. I'm glad I came on when I did when we still got simunition training with pain feedback. It was very helpful when it became real. Now they don't do that. So what you imagine any given officer gets for training vs what they actually get may be very different.

Why, out of curiosity, is there no ethical burden to improve yourself if you carry a gun and face the deadly force decision making process without a badge? It's cool to make bad decisions since you didn't bother to learn better.

 

[BE Mike]

The language used by the authorities, alluding to self-defense, is just bait to get the shooter to turn himself in.

 

[cg21]

You can be a police officer in Indiana with a 40 hour pre-basic. People are human, the badge doesn't change that, and someone's first shooting is their first shooting. The number of departments doing realistic stress training is low and getting lower. I'm glad I came on when I did when we still got simunition training with pain feedback. It was very helpful when it became real. Now they don't do that. So what you imagine any given officer gets for training vs what they actually get may be very different.

Alright I will admit I do not know what it takes to become a police officer if what you’re saying is true for most departments then I think that is extremely irresponsible to put a poorly trained individual into highly stressful and dangerous situations. I mean to become a plumber is like a 3 year apprenticeship and you just get a torch.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

There's no maybe. Individuals will have their own opinions, but it's not like we don't have a ton of threads on INGO about questions surrounding police shootings. It's pretty simple to compare the overall tone.

ETA: I skimmed through the prior pages and it appears the usual "perp deserved it, it's all good" and "did it need to go down this way." sides. See below, I watched yet again and saw some behavior that is very problematic after the prep is down... civvy or cop. The first four shots are visibly justified, after that, some context is definitely needed from the shooter.

You can be a police officer in Indiana with a 40 hour pre-basic. People are human, the badge doesn't change that, and someone's first shooting is their first shooting. The number of departments doing realistic stress training is low and getting lower. I'm glad I came on when I did when we still got simunition training with pain feedback. It was very helpful when it became real. Now they don't do that. So what you imagine any given officer gets for training vs what they actually get may be very different.

Why, out of curiosity, is there no ethical burden to improve yourself if you carry a gun and face the deadly force decision making process without a badge? It's cool to make bad decisions since you didn't bother to learn better.

The language used by the authorities, alluding to self-defense, is just bait to get the shooter to turn himself in.

I watched the un-editted video again... no problem whatso-ever with the first 4 shots, before the perp was down. Perp was still waving the gun around and pointing at patrons.

While the perp is down, the up to that point "good guy", is shooting the downed perp while reaching to the left... the perp lost control of the gun when he went down. And the shooter knew that as evidenced by he knew where the gun was, off to the left, not in the perp's hand.

Dude has serious legal issues... appears to have turned a good shoot into a bad one. He's got some explaining to do.

 

[nonobaddog]

Sorry my post is has so much "white space". Something goofy is occurring with my phone and this website. It's adding a lot of blank space to my post.

Noticed that, I almost had to scroll to Houston to look for the map.

 

[HoughMade]

TL;DR

All I know is that my medical expert will say that the first 3 to 4 shots killed him. If they want a plea for abuse of corpse, we'll talk.

 

[HoughMade]

He didn't have criminal intent. It would depend on the prosecutor. He did take an execution shot. If charged, that's what he did.

I don't know how people think "intent" is proven, but generally a person is presumed to have the intent to do what they do. Period.

Did he knowingly and purposefully pull the trigger while knowingly pointing the gun at a person? Did he expect to cause death or great bodily injury? That can be presumed from his actions. No one has to say it or admit it. There's the intent. The defense is found elsewhere.

 

[Quiet Observer]

The more compete video shows him shooting the robber repeatedly after he was down, even what looks like a final shot to the head.
That is not self-defense.

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[SheepDog4Life]

TL;DR

All I know is that my medical expert will say that the first 3 to 4 shots killed him. If they want a plea for abuse of corpse, we'll talk.

Nice and neat solution, counselor.

 

[bobzilla]

The more compete video shows him shooting the robber repeatedly after he was down, even what looks like a final shot to the head.
That is not self-defense.

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in your opinion. be a butter all you want, but these ****ers don't want to end up room temperature then don't pick up a gun (fake or not) and threaten people with it.

 

[craigkim]

I am not sure that final shot was intentional. He seems somewhat awkward in retrieving the weapon, probably has his finger on the trigger, full of adrenaline, and his muzzle was on the robbers head or upper torso.

 

[Alamo]

Is it law that one needs to be a citizen to carry a gun in a constutional carry state; or any other state?

To my knowledge (Quite possibly may be imperfect):

Texas law on firearms does not distinguish between citizens and noncitizens. You do have to be eligible to have a firearm under federal law, you can’t be a prohibited person.

Under federal law a resident alien can possess firearms and ammunition in accordance with local law. Non-immigrant aliens are in general prohibited from possessing firearms, but there are exceptions, e.g. If a non-immigrant alien has a hunting license then he can possess firearms and ammunition.

Again, this is what I think I know, but I would not take action on it without further research, I am not a lawyer nor did I stay in a any kind of hotel last night, and I will not provide you bail money.

 

[bobzilla]

I am not sure that final shot was intentional. He seems somewhat awkward in retrieving the weapon, probably has his finger on the trigger, full of adrenaline, and his muzzle was on the robbers head or upper torso.

finally watched it with sound and this is my take away as well. The other thing is the dude is amped and dead bodies can twitch and move. Guy was in grabbing distance and if the body or part moved he fired again and moved back out of range with the "weapon".

 

[nonobaddog]

The main thing is what the prosecutor does. Reportedly he said no charges. Since this is Texas it is fairly likely the prosecutor is not a lying bastard. If no charges are filed then that is what counts.

 

[Lpherr]

The main thing is what the prosecutor does. Reportedly he said no charges. Since this is Texas it is fairly likely the prosecutor is not a lying bastard. If no charges are filed then that is what counts.

Simplifying the process. Why remedy one long, drawn out trial, with another one?

 

[nonobaddog]

Simplifying the process. Why remedy one long, drawn out trial, with another one?

Say what?

 

[d.kaufman]

The main thing is what the prosecutor does. Reportedly he said no charges. Since this is Texas it is fairly likely the prosecutor is not a lying bastard. If no charges are filed then that is what counts.

I just wonder if that was stated just to get the guy to come in for questioning since he did leave the scene