Student Injured by Accidental Discharge of Police Weapon at School

[Denny347]

Innocent officers will not be impacted just like innocent arrestees are not impacted.

Naive to say the least

The police will have insurance. I am not worried about them.

Like private malpractice insurance? Hospitals typically pay Dr's malpractice insurance premiums. So, you'd suggest that an officer who makes $50k a year pay $8-$10k in premiums a year? I am quite aware you are not worried about them.

 

[Denny347]

And the fact if it’s a case where they (the LEO) were acting within established Department SOP’s or Policy and that policy was later ruled unconstitutional or relevant Case Law came out that ruled against the agency’s way the Department is on the hook.

Seen that alternate ending to.

Oh yeah, I've seen that quite a bit as well. I have yet to see a lawsuit where the officers aren't also named in their individual capacity though. It's like it's the template for ALL State/Federal civil litigation filings. They want us to carry our own insurance? Fine, increase officer pay to compensate, $10k-$20k more a year per officer. Tax payers pay more so they are free to sue us privately for doing our job legally and ethically. Abolishing QI is similar to the defund the police ideology in that it's great to say in casual settings but the devil is in the details. What are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects to these grand ideas? No one seems to sit down and work out the details. What does it really look like?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This doesn't really apply in this case as it wasn't really an 'accidental' shooting, training with simunitions he fully intended to shoot that person, he just unfortunately had his real gun.

Where did you hear that they were training with simunitions? Per the article I read they normally use "plastic" guns (aka blue guns) in the training.

 

[drillsgt]

Where did you hear that they were training with simunitions? Per the article I read they normally use "plastic" guns (aka blue guns) in the training.

Sorry that was in reference to the other article/situation that was talked about.

 

[ECS686]

Oh yeah, I've seen that quite a bit as well. I have yet to see a lawsuit where the officers aren't also named in their individual capacity though. It's like it's the template for ALL State/Federal civil litigation filings. They want us to carry our own insurance? Fine, increase officer pay to compensate, $10k-$20k more a year per officer. Tax payers pay more so they are free to sue us privately for doing our job legally and ethically. Abolishing QI is similar to the defund the police ideology in that it's great to say in casual settings but the devil is in the details. What are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects to these grand ideas? No one seems to sit down and work out the details. What does it really look like?

Sort of related to QI that will also add. And nothing against anyone involved in Agency Unions. I have seen more “Bad Officers” (you know the ones that are In 80% of any use of force incidents, Officer Cartman types making a mountain out of a Mole Hill instead of the other way etc) not get disciplined or fired when it’s clearly proven several times over they were out of line because the Union muddies up the water.

I have seen several Department Unions use the term “Past Practice “ to save a lot of bad apples. When I hear them throw “Past Practice” I hear that as “Someone else got away with it so our person should too” and then the policy is changed.

That’s more the issue than QI is!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Naive to say the least

Like private malpractice insurance? Hospitals typically pay Dr's malpractice insurance premiums. So, you'd suggest that an officer who makes $50k a year pay $8-$10k in premiums a year? I am quite aware you are not worried about them.

Naive? No, sarcastic.

Yes, just like malpractice insurance. Department would pay, part of the compensation.

 

[bwframe]

Huge difference in reciting the four rules and actually committing to doing them.

Along with that, there are plenty of gun toting enthusiasts out there that are just "too smart" for the four rules.


.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Along with that, there are plenty of gun toting enthusiasts out there that are just "too smart" for the four rules.


.

Sad but truth. Never think malice when ordinary stupidity shall suffice.

 

[jlw]

I sure did.

No, you didn't. I specifically asked for you to include the court standards, and you didn't address that.

1. Do you know how many special prosecutors have sat across my desk and cited immunity as the reason not to criminally prosecute cops and a judge? Two so far.

Look let's just stop pretending that treating police as special snowflakes does not impact their attitudes (if this moron down there knew he would be sued for waving a gun around he would not have done so). Let's not pretend that qualified immunity allows the police to commit crimes without consequence. Let's just end it.

2. Courts have gone to absurd lengths to obfuscate clearly established law. If there is an out for the cops, the courts will take it. Let's end QI so this does not transpire any more.

Qualified immunity does not apply in a criminal case. Qualified immunity is very specific. Please don't mix terms.

 

[jlw]

Last year, the police chief in my hometown was charged with a crime pertaining to his use of force in relation to an arrest. His lawyer argued that he had immunity under a specific state statute allowing for the use of force to effect an arrest. The judge dismissed the case.
The news media reported that the case was dismissed due to qualified immunity. The news media was wrong. So is any lawyer referring to that statutory immunity as qualified immunity. The civil case in that incident is ongoing.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

No, you didn't. I specifically asked for you to include the court standards, and you didn't address that.


Qualified immunity does not apply in a criminal case. Qualified immunity is very specific. Please don't mix terms.

Lol, you can go do your own homework as I am not accepting any assignments.

Qualified immunity has been used by Special Prosecutors in my own &^%$# office in order for them to rationalize not seeking criminal charges against cops. Qualified immunity is a stalking horse used by .gov to treatment the police as special and just not administratively or civilly. Qualified immunity is wholly unconstitutional and must be abolished.

 

[JTScribe]

County should be getting the checkbook ready, that kid’s going to college on their dime.

 

[jlw]

Lol, you can go do your own homework as I am not accepting any assignments.

Qualified immunity has been used by Special Prosecutors in my own &^%$# office in order for them to rationalize not seeking criminal charges against cops. Qualified immunity is a stalking horse used by .gov to treatment the police as special and just not administratively or civilly. Qualified immunity is wholly unconstitutional and must be abolished.

You are mixing terms. Qualified immunity does not apply to criminal cases.

 

[ECS686]

Lol, you can go do your own homework as I am not accepting any assignments.

Qualified immunity has been used by Special Prosecutors in my own &^%$# office in order for them to rationalize not seeking criminal charges against cops. Qualified immunity is a stalking horse used by .gov to treatment the police as special and just not administratively or civilly. Qualified immunity is wholly unconstitutional and must be abolished.

To me you seem mad about QI when your example is more a Prosecutors Discretion not to charge said LEO. That could be caused by other mitigating factors couldn’t it?

And as mentioned if it’s that blatant criminal or outside agency SOP’s QI is out.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You are mixing terms. Qualified immunity does not apply to criminal cases.

Yes, very true, but Prosecutors use it to rationalize their bias as not to prosecute cops (and judges).

Immunity sets some above the law. This is unjust and a Constitutional violation.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

To me you seem mad about QI when your example is more a Prosecutors Discretion not to charge said LEO. That could be caused by other mitigating factors couldn’t it?

And as mentioned if it’s that blatant criminal or outside agency SOP’s QI is out.

This is because Prosecutors have rationalized not prosecuting cops (and a judge) saying that the fact that they have civil immunity means that the police are above the law.

Having different classes of people is bad for the long term stability of the Rule of Law.

 

[Sigblitz]

'Dad, there's a class...' Nope. No.

 

[jlw]

Yes, very true, but Prosecutors use it to rationalize their bias as not to prosecute cops (and judges).

Immunity sets some above the law. This is unjust and a Constitutional violation.

How is statutory immunity any different than lawfully using deadly force?

Killing someone is a crime except under circumstances allowed by law.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How is statutory immunity any different than lawfully using deadly force?

Killing someone is a crime except under circumstances allowed by law.

Now we are on to statutory immunity? Couldn't defend the made up nonsense of QI?

The Supreme Court made up qualified immunity in 1967 to protect the South, the very target of the 1871 Civil Rights Act. Qualified immunity has become an "absolute shield" as per Kisela (2018).

Qualified immunity is directly contrary to the original intent of the Fourteenth Amendment and the 1871 Civil Rights Act which allowed African-Americans to sue the South back to the Constitution. Eliminate QI and allow victims to sue the police is the best police reform we can implement.

Killing someone is not per se a crime. There are many types of homicide. One has always been allowed to use deadly force to prevent death or sbi or prevent a forcible felony since time immemorial. Qualified immunity was just made up on the spot because they Supreme Court could see what direction Mississippi, inter alia, was headed if African-Americans were allowed their rights under the 1871 Civil Rights Act.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Abolishing QI would simple restore us back to Monroe v. Pape where rogue police could be held responsible for their crimes civilly and people would not have to rely on a Prosecutor who will 9 times out of 10 make excuses for police, and judicial misconduct.

Innocent police will have nothing to fear.

Monroe v. Pape:

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