Search by Conservation Officer?

[Fargo]

Also LEO's are either city, county or state LOE's, as to where C.O.'s are state wide ... Most are just over districts but can be called all over the state and have the same arrest rights as a LEO but will call a LEO for traffic/drug violation ..

Nope, that used to be the case, but all ordinary LEO's now have statewide jurisdiction in Indiana. The only ones who don't are some school cops.

Below is a link to an Indiana Court of Appeals case specifically holding that CO's do not have search powers under 12-22-39-3 outside of what is normally allowed by the IN and US Constitutions to any LEO.

State of Indiana v. Stephen Alter :: 2011 :: Indiana Court of Appeals Decisions :: Indiana Case Law :: Indiana Law :: U.S. Law :: Justia

 

[Fargo]

From the case above:

To the extent the State asserts that Ind.Code § 14–22–39–3 permits conservation officers to conduct investigations to protect Indiana's fish and wildlife and that Officer Neargardner was permitted to ask for any contraband in the bag under the statute, we observe that Ind.Code § 14–22–39–3 provides in part:

The director and conservation officers may1) search a boat, a conveyance, a vehicle, an automobile, a fish box, a fish basket, a game bag, a game coat, or other receptacle in which game may be carried; and(2) enter into or upon private or public property for the purposes of subdivision (1) or for the purpose of patrolling or investigating;if the director or conservation officer has good reason to believe that the director or conservation officer will secure evidence of a violation of this article or a law for the propagation or protection of fish, frogs, mussels, game, furbearing mammals, or birds.

This court has previously addressed a prior version of this statute, Ind.Code § 14–2–9–1 (subsequently amended by Pub.L. No. 1–1995, § 15 (eff. July 1, 1995)), and held: Although we have not addressed the question of the “good reason to believe” standard specified in Ind.Code 14–2–9–1, we believe that standard to be suspect. Conservation officers who, in their role as a government agent, rely upon that standard as something less than probable cause as defined in a 4th Amendment context, face a high probability of putting their investigation in harm's way.Richard v. State, 482 N.E.2d 282, 287 (Ind.Ct.App.1985). Regardless of the language of Ind.Code § 14–22–39–3, the conservation officers were not permitted to detain or seize Alter in violation of the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution. -

 

[WebSnyper]

1. You where looking for Chants? Like the songs of Gregorian Monks?
2. Digging up ginseng is illegal?

I have to admit, these were exactly my questions as well after reading the OP.

I'm still not sure why anyone would ever consent to a search.

If they have adequate reason to search, they won't need your consent to do it.

I have to admit this was also one of my first thoughts.

 

[DWS]

No one charges anything in fed court except the US Atty's office and the otfher DOJ......

Well...yes. That can be said for any court essentially. We don't do the charging ourselves at all. We merely, as you stated, refer cases to the courts in our jurisdiction. I wasn't saying that was the "power" they had versus anyone else. I was attempting to simply say that I suspect that is what the OP and subsequent posters were referring to as "more power" than a "regular LEO"..

I do appreciate you expanding on that and putting it into better terms than what I could muster - long day on my end... LOL

 

[Fargo]

Well...yes. That can be said for any court essentially. We don't do the charging ourselves at all. We merely, as you stated, refer cases to the courts in our jurisdiction. I wasn't saying that was the "power" they had versus anyone else. I was attempting to simply say that I suspect that is what the OP and subsequent posters were referring to as "more power" than a "regular LEO"..

I do appreciate you expanding on that and putting it into better terms than what I could muster - long day on my end... LOL

hope I didn't come off contradictorily. I know of Indiana COs trying to take stuff federal, but I don't know of any who have had great success with the AUSAs.

 

[yote hunter]

I guess I stand corrected.... Learn something everyday.

 

[Restroyer]

3 people were arrested last week for illegal ginseng digging in Franklin County. Then the police went to their trailer and found a drug operation. The locals around here claim that drug addicts trespass and look for ginsneg to dig up to sell for quick drug money. Not sure if that is true or not but I know that my trail cameras have been picking up some weird looking tresspassers lately on my property. I know that the police and conservation officers have been on the look out for ginseng hunters lately (the tresspassing ones) which might explain the pushy C.O. in the original post.

 

[1861navy]

Nope, that used to be the case, but all ordinary LEO's now have statewide jurisdiction in Indiana. The only ones who don't are some school cops.

Below is a link to an Indiana Court of Appeals case specifically holding that CO's do not have search powers under 12-22-39-3 outside of what is normally allowed by the IN and US Constitutions to any LEO.

State of Indiana v. Stephen Alter :: 2011 :: Indiana Court of Appeals Decisions :: Indiana Case Law :: Indiana Law :: U.S. Law :: Justia

OK, that helps a bit. I think.?
So basically mushroom hunting and having a trowel in your car isn't enough for a CO to jump to the conclusion im ginseng hunting. Because a trowel is common hiking gear anyway. After the items in my bag checked out with what I was doing, that should have been enough to prove I wasn't doing anything illegal and he should have let it be.
I know the case you quoted isn't about ginseng etc., but that's what I gather about search by CO from it.

 

[churchmouse]

OK, that helps a bit. I think.?
So basically mushroom hunting and having a trowel in your car isn't enough for a CO to jump to the conclusion im ginseng hunting. Because a trowel is common hiking gear anyway. After the items in my bag checked out with what I was doing, that should have been enough to prove I wasn't doing anything illegal and he should have let it be.
I know the case you quoted isn't about ginseng etc., but that's what I gather about search by CO from it.

He was looking for something to justify his job.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Conservation officers are bound by the same laws as all LEOs.

We are of the opinion that no serious question can be raised that conservation officers are exempted from the constitutional guarantees relating to unreasonable search and seizure. See: U.S. Const. amend. 4, Ind. Const. Art. 1, § 11, Jones v. State, (1984) Ind. App., 467 N.E.2d 1236.

There are some things that fall under an implied consent, though, just like driving comes with implied consent to take a certified BAC test when certain conditions are met. Unless it was repealed in the last session, fishing gives implied consent to provide your fishing license upon request, for example.

14-22-39-3 addresses some of these issues as well. I'm not well versed in fur/fish/game laws to comment much further, but poking around in the IC would probably net you the answers.

 

[T.Lex]

Other than a terry frisk, what search does reasonable suspicion justify?

It depends.

I meant to say "at least reasonable articulable suspicion."

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It depends.

I meant to say "at least reasonable articulable suspicion."

If you're going to frisk depends, wear gloves. I hear they are often moist.

 

[irishhunter]

CO last name wasn't Labonte by chance with a black lab?

 

[weezy]

The thing is , you didn't have to let him search anything. You consented each time he asked.

 

[chipbennett]

Because you consented, we may never know.

Actually, the answer is that they probably don't need PC in this situation. First, it has been awhile, but by going into the park, you probably consented to those kinds of searches. Second, the officer isn't required to believe you. You admitted you were "hunting chants" and you had the tools to dig for ginseng, so he probably had a reasonable articulable suspicion for a brief detention and limited search.

I'm still not sure why anyone would ever consent to a search.

If they have adequate reason to search, they won't need your consent to do it.

Exactly what I was going to say. The fourth amendment still applies to COs. Lawful activity is not specific, reasonable, articulable suspicion of unlawful activity. And if an LEO has probable cause to conduct a seizure or a search, he won't need your consent in order to conduct a seizure or a search. Getting your consent is merely a bonus to circumvent potential fourth-amendment issues.

Never consent to a search.

 

[Leadeye]

How in the **** does ginseng grow in Indiana?

Have trouble with ginseng hunters every year, you would think the area around here was carpeted with it. Most on my ground and the surrounding HNF is long gone.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Have trouble with ginseng hunters every year, you would think the area around here was carpeted with it. Most on my ground and the surrounding HNF is long gone.

And thats why they are cracking down. The hunters are ignoring good harvesting practices and are acting like they are buffalo on the prairie.

 

[churchmouse]

And thats why they are cracking down. The hunters are ignoring good harvesting practices and are acting like they are buffalo on the prairie.

Greed. Gimme Gimme Gimme.

 

[Leadeye]

Greed. Gimme Gimme Gimme.

Ginseng money is the locals favorite, untaxed, unattached and ungarnished beer and smoke money. I find the tracks and holes out in the woods along with the trail of trash. Sometimes I get a picture.

 

[1861navy]

He was looking for something to justify his job.

Lol, he wasted time doing it too.

CO last name wasn't Labonte by chance with a black lab?

Nope, wasn't him.

And thats why they are cracking down. The hunters are ignoring good harvesting practices and are acting like they are buffalo on the prairie.

Exactly, a rough economy combined with high price of buffalo hides drove many west, just like now in this rough economy with high price of ginseng many want to make a buck.


Also leadeye brings up a good point, if quite a few people who are digging 'seng illegally are using money for drugs, etc. And doing it on state/federal property like HNF, MMSF, etc. Leaving trash, CO's would be out looking pretty hardcore for those individuals.