School me on: sporting shotguns

[GoDawgs]

So I have a 30-40 yr old Remington 870 with a 30in barrel on borrow from my father in law. I have shot skeet, trap, & sporting clays a few times (shot 23/25 my second round of trap!) and I absolutely love it. I was thinking of buying a true sporting gun for my new hobby. The problem is I don't really know the fundamentals of shotguns and what I should be thinking about on my possible new purchase.

My questions are:
Choke
-I understand choke can increase/decrease the spread of a shotgun and so can the length of a barrel, what is a good setup for skeet? for trap? for sporting clays?
-it seems that trap shooters prefer longer barrels and skeet/sporting shooters prefer shorter barrels - what is a good all around length if I want to shoot all types?
-Why wouldn't I just want to have as open choke and shortest barrel possible to increase spread the most and hit the most clays?
Shot
-Is there any reason I wouldn't want to use the highest number shot I can find for a reasonable price as to increase the 'cloud' of shot I shoot?
-12 gauge is cheaper and more common, but is there anything wrong with 20 gauge if I want to spare my shoulder a bit AND make the firearm more friendly to the women/kids in my life?
Type
-what are the pros and cons of an O/U vs a semi-auto shotgun?
-what is the difference between a gas operated and blowback semi-auto?


Sorry if these are dumb questions, I didn't grow up with firearms so I am learning as much as I can from friends and INGO. Thanks for your help.

 

[Shoots4Fun]

I like the tradition and formality of the sport and personally think the O/U is the way to go. Most people that I've noticed are shooting 12 gauge, but there's no reason you can't shoot a 20 gauge. It may handicap you a bit on the competitive side. Women usually are the ones shooting 20 gauge, not meant as an joke, just the facts. I considered one as well as I want my daughters to get interested, but decided I'd just need to invest in another gun when it's time.

I think 28" or 30" barrels are the way to go to accomodate both Skeet and Trap. You can add extended chokes if you want but I've read where it doesn't matter that much.

I have a entry level O/U that I bought used and I have had nothing but good luck from it.

I usually shoot the cheapest shells I can get which normally is Estate or the Federal packs from Walmart.

Many guys shoot with the semi-autos however so that certainly is acceptable. I don't see many pumps though. The semi-auto would certainly make for a better dual purpose home defense/sport shotgun.

I'm just a novice at the sport and don't hunt at all, so it's just my ...

 

[DustyDawg48]

You are going to get a lot of answers to your questions because they are more 'personal preference' issues that a real 'what is best' issue.

Chokes and barrel length can be a 'flavor of the month' deal with some of the clay sports. Depending on who is winning what, you will get the trend to follow that pattern. If a guy shows up and dominates several skeet matches using a 32" barrel O/U you can guess what everybody is going to go out and buy for next season.

Generally, trap and sporting clay shooters will have longer barrels because many shots travel away from them so a longer barrel will tend to keep a tighter pattern further out. Couple that with a tight choke and you can really reach out and touch a clay if it has gotten away from you. Skeet clays travel from left to right or right to left but never really 'away' like trap and sporting clays will. You will still get clays that are like that in skeet but not nearly to the degree of the other sports. Going to 26 or 28 inch barrels with skeet and using an open choke is what most skeet shooters use.

Choke selection, just like barrel length, can be a sport-specific choice, too. A tighter choke will throw a tighter pattern so it will cover a small area. Conversely an open choke will throw a looser pattern and it will cover a larger area. A way of looking at it is: Somebody once said that they figured it took 3 to 4 pellets (shot) to break a bird. Depending on at what distance you are actually shooting the bird in the air and coupled with how good you are at leading the target you have to figure the best way to cover the clay with the mandatory 3-4 pellets to break it plus a few extra as insurance. The pattern an open choke throws at 25 yards is drastic in comparison to the pattern a full choke will have at the same distance. Get some cardboard and a couple of chokes and shoot the cardboard at 25 yards with the different chokes and envision a clay target in that pattern. It could help you better understand how YOU shoot the clays and how tight of a pattern you need to regularly break 20+ each round.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Shot selection, that again is personal preference. The smaller the shot the less energy it carries with it. #9 shot may cover a wider area because there are more of them but it will take more #9 pellets to break a clay than #6 or #7 1/2 shot. 7 1/2 is generally considered the standard since it has a good mixture of quantity of pellets and pellet weight. Again, if you are able to get on clays almost as soon as they leave the trap house, then go with #9 shot and dust those but if you have to punch further out then go with a larger pellet to carry more energy further out.

O/U vs semi.... how much money do you want to spend? A good O/U will probably set you back $800 plus used. There are endless debates on the merits of the entry level O/U like the Spartan or the Silver Reserve; I've had a Mossberg SR and it's an ok gun but there is a level of craftsmanship that has to go in to making both barrels shoot to the same spot and to get everything to work correctly and some of those guys just don't have it. If you ever get a chance to see a Remington Spartan or a Silver Reserve next to a Browning or Beretta there is a world of difference. The CZ models of O/U are pretty good, probably some of the better entry level doubles and are worth looking at. A good semi-auto, though, can be had used for $400 or so and will give you decades of service. The Remington 1100 or 11-87, the Beretta A390, the Browning Gold or Silver...all great guns and they can also double as hunting guns...there is no way in hell I'm hunting with my $2,500 O/U I can tell you that! LOL

Again, there is some trial and error involved in finding what you want to shoot, like to shoot and are good at shooting. I've seen guys dominate the trap field with an 870 and the 870 has been doing that for generations. Others love the look, feel and extra weight the O/U brings you. The heavier the gun the more is soaks up the recoil. It is also more fatiguing that a lighter gun. So depending on how many birds you shoot in a session it's up to you on how much you want to carry and hold an 11 pound gun versus a 7 pound gun.

20 gauge can do just about anything a 12 gauge can do...if YOU as a shooter can do it. It really boils down to you finding a gun that you like to shoot and becoming proficient with it. As long as you can get the 2nd shot ready in enough time to take it with whatever gun you are using, you can absolutely shoot every clay sport out there with the same gun. It has to do more with your own personal mechanics and your knowledge of what you need to do with the gun than anything the gun will bring to you.

 

[451_Detonics]

Lot's of questions...

-I understand choke can increase/decrease the spread of a shotgun and so can the length of a barrel, what is a good setup for skeet? for trap? for sporting clays?

Skeet shooters tend to prefer a 26 inch barrel as it swings better on the crossing shots required in skeet. On the middle stations you need to be able to really accelerate the barrels in your swing as well as changing directions when shooting the stations that have doubles.

-it seems that trap shooters prefer longer barrels and skeet/sporting shooters prefer shorter barrels - what is a good all around length if I want to shoot all types?

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Trap shooter prefer up to a 32 inch barrel. There is limited swing in Trap with all the targets moving away from the shooter. This is also why tighter chokes are normally used in trap as the bird is further away from the shooter when he fires.

Sporting clays can combine aspects of both skeet and trap and 28 inch barrels are the most common. If I was to pick a gun to shoot all three sports I would go with a 28 inch barrel most likely tho I have shot just about as many straights with a 26 inch barrel. It is really personal taste.

-Why wouldn't I just want to have as open choke and shortest barrel possible to increase spread the most and hit the most clays?

Once the distance starts increasing as the bird moves away from you it is easy for a pattern to open up so far there are holes in the pattern that a bird can fly through thus you need to use the proper choke for the average distance that birds will be at. For skeet this mean SK-1 ans Sk-2 or about cylinder and improved cylinder in a double and IC in a single. For trap from the 16 yard line modified is fine but as you start moving back tighter chokes will be needed.

-Is there any reason I wouldn't want to use the highest number shot I can find for a reasonable price as to increase the 'cloud' of shot I shoot?

You can find shot as small as 12's but the pellets have so little mass the lose velocity rapidly and may not break the clays, generally 7 1/2s and 8's are the common loads for any of the clay games.

-12 gauge is cheaper and more common, but is there anything wrong with 20 gauge if I want to spare my shoulder a bit AND make the firearm more friendly to the women/kids in my life?

The only hitch is if you want to shoot registered birds in trap, that will require a 12 gauge, for fun it doesn't matter too much but the 12 will have a shorter shot column which result in a denser pattern most of the time.

-what are the pros and cons of an O/U vs a semi-auto shotgun?
-what is the difference between a gas operated and blowback semi-auto?

The O/U is used firing the bottom barrel first. This result in the recoil being more inline with the stock which results in less muzzle lift. Less muzzle lift makes the second shot in skeet and sporting clays easier. O/Us are also shorter guns in OAL when compared to semi auto's with the same barrel length, this aids in the guns smooth swing without sacrificing barrel length. Also the O/U allows you to have 2 different chokes installed making it easier to hit a close target then a longer target on some doubles. Last the slightly heavier O/U's swing better for many folks.

Biggest difference between gas and recoil operated in the felt recoil, gas system guns shot softer. An 1100 in 12 will shoot about as soft as an 870 in 20 with the same weight loads.

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Before buying I would suggest you try as many types of guns as possible. Make friends at your local clubs and many will offer to let you shoot a round with their gun. A big store like Jaqua's in Findley Ohio has a trap field on the premises and you can often try a used gun out before buying. A good shotgun shop can also help you find a gun that fits right.

 

[melensdad]

Excellent post by 451Detonics.

A couple points to add. Each 'game' has its own shape to the gun in addition to the barrel length. The Sporting Clays guns tend to be very similar in comb drop to a field/hunting gun, they also typically have a rounded top to the rubber butt pad, the rounded top is often a harder, slick rubber compound. As you always start in a low gun position with Sporting Clays the slicked top/rounded/top butt pad won't snag on your shooting vest when you bring the gun up to mount it against your shoulder. Trap guns tend to have a higher and straighter comb and often an exceptionally thick butt pad. Skeet guns are the sports cars of the shot gun world as they must be very quick to handle and move across the target area they are shorter, lighter and have a comb drop that is more like a hunting shotgun.

 

[GoDawgs]

Thanks for all the explanations and tips! So it sounds like I can't go wrong with a used 26-28in O/U like a Browning Citori or Beretta 686.

 

[DissonantEscapist]

SKB also makes a good o/u, and they can be had used for a pretty good price if you look. They also use the standard WIN chokes.

 

[singlesix]

OP, I suggest you make your way to Indiana Gun Club, Fortville, and ask few questions and handle their collection of shotguns.

 

[Zoub]

-Is there any reason I wouldn't want to use the highest number shot I can find for a reasonable price as to increase the 'cloud' of shot I shoot?

There is one reason, recoil. The truly highest number of shot comes from larger loads. You don't really want to shoot 1 1/8 or heavier loads if you are shooting 200-300 rounds in an O/U. Don't get tempted to try that, if it really worked everyone would shoot 1.5 ounce loads. Then apply how 451 explained shot size and shot column in his post.

 

[GoDawgs]

OP, I suggest you make your way to Indiana Gun Club, Fortville, and ask few questions and handle their collection of shotguns.

This is where I have been going to shoot, but I guess I never have actually talked to those guys behind the counter outside of paying for my tab. I'm thinking of getting a membership when the next year starts. Once that is done, I really should go about making some knowledgeable friends over there - staff and members alike. . .