Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[BugI02]

That is from last April. That is why I posted the 196 billion(Foxnews article). It is not just military and humanitarian aid we send. We have also paid IMF loans Ukraine owes in addition to things like pensions. That sum does not include the billions we spent before January of 2022.

So that minister's wife caught at the Polish border with 16 suitcases full of cash was just transferring his pension to a new investment advisor, yes? Oy

 

[BugI02]

I remember when the strategy was to "bleed out" the USSR, maybe that's what's being turned on America. We'll certainly last longer, but how much longer, and at what cost.

Personally, I think the CCP and the PLA are cheerleading for us to exhaust our stocks of high tech weaponry as much as possible as well as exhaust ourselves economically and then they will move on Taiwan when we reach our nadir - and Biden's response will predominantly involve ice cream

 

[BugI02]

In what world does 5% of our defense budget "bleed" us out? I'm not seeing Russia, which amounts to a giant third world gas station with nukes, bleeding out the United States and our allies.

If you are fine with Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union, just say so.

They never lost their global nuclear reach, they don't need to rebuild the USSR to be an existential concern for us

As far as retaking territory that was once the USSR, shouldn't the EU/NATO be taking point on preventing that? Aren't they the ones actually threatened by it? Do you think buying lots of Russian NG wasn't rebuilding the Soviet Union?

They will never step up as long as it is so easy to milk us and hold our coat

 

[BugI02]

Careful....if you doubt ukraine you'll be labeled a putin lover. [subcontractor for rebuilding the soviet]

Fixy

 

[smokingman]

"We must therefore be prepared for significant Russian gains in the coming weeks. We need to be realistic about how bad things could be – otherwise the shock risks dislodging Western resolve. The opposite occurred last summer and autumn, as flagging support in parts of Europe and the US was galvanised by Ukrainian success.

It is essential that we not only maintain our combat supplies to Ukraine, but step it up even further and even faster. If Putin gains more ground, then Kyiv will need to counterattack more strongly, and will need more armoured vehicles, better air defences, longer-range missiles and vast quantities of artillery shells and ammunition. The only alternative is that President Zelensky is forced to come to terms, handing victory to Russia and defeat to Ukraine and Nato."

Vladimir Putin is about to make shock gains

Russia has stopped the bleeding and learned from its mistakes. We must be prepared for a nasty blow

www.telegraph.co.uk

I could tell you how the Barclay family owns it,or how the British and US government have supported the paper(all the way back to the US civil war)...but those that would need to understand it would not care. This is the message the government wants you to hear.

Expect losses and more sacrifices for Ukraine or Ukraine and NATO lose. Rally behind them and give up more...or else the bogeyman will get you.

Definition of BOGEYMAN

a monstrous imaginary figure used in threatening children; a terrifying or dreaded person or thing : bugbear… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[BugI02]

Expect losses and more sacrifices for Ukraine or Ukraine and NATO lose. Rally behind them and give up more...or else the bogeyman will get you.

Definition of BOGEYMAN

a monstrous imaginary figure used in threatening children; a terrifying or dreaded person or thing : bugbear… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana,

Specifically, the horrors and futility of trench warfare

 

[smokingman]

Fear the unicorn Russia.

Ukraine's 'unicorn' LGBTQ soldiers head for war

As volunteer fighters Oleksandr Zhuhan and Antonina Romanova pack for a return to active duty, they contemplate the unicorn insignia that gives their uniform a rare distinction - a symbol of their status as an LGBTQ couple who are Ukrainian soldiers.

www.reuters.com

Also. China expect a strongly worded letter.

Blinken Warns China Against Providing Aid To Russia, Says Balloon Surveillance Must "Never Again Occur" As Beijing Slams "Excessive Use Of Force", Offers "No Apology" | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[nra4ever]

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Russia is warning civilians to .

“From "2 Majors" TG Channel:
--
Residents of Ukraine
Everyone understands that the past month, during which the Russian Armed Forces seized the initiative, was a preparation . Open sources mention the Sumy, Chernigov, Kharkov and Zaporizhia as possible directions for an offensive.
People living in these territories can see for themselves signs of how the AFU are preparing these cities and areas for defense. The area is being mined, fortifications are being built, military columns and buses with mercenaries are moving.
The Ukrainian command has good intelligence from American satellites, processed by experienced analytical centers.
But official Kiev does not announce the evacuation of the population. Because fortified areas are being built in cities and the civilian population will once again become a human shield. Evacuation in Kupyansk was announced after the Russian Armed Forces approached the city at 7-10 km.
It is absolutely necessary for Ukrainians to leave these cities. The Russian Armed Forces will no longer conduct a police operation. Such nonsense as it was in Mariupol, when the position of an enemy sniper/machine gunner could not be demolished because in a dilapidated five-story building "there can be civilians", will no longer apply.
And after all the horrific videos of tortures and shootings of our soldiers, the joyful reaction of a large number of Ukrainians to them, the attitude of soldiers and officers to "peaceful population" has changed somewhat.”

Sounds like things will get spicy this week or so.

SITREP: Update 2/18 - Major War Confirmed Imminent

Calm before the storm.

simplicius76.substack.com

 

[smokingman]

Ukraine's Ministry of Defense.
US Pentagon and Department of defense....silence.

Should tell you all you need to know.
Even during the war Russia has warned the Pentagon of nuclear force drills. Just like we warn them and others of our own. It helps keep fingers off of the launch button.

Granted it does not make nearly as good propaganda as just making crap up. Of course the media really does not care which is the case for a click,share,or ratings.

Also your source...just 7 hours before that post.


They are probably tracking which received more clicks. For them every click is worth actual money. No real news needed,just something that will grab clicks.

 

[Wolfhound]

You would think that if the government was going to spend this money they would at least have Americans make the ordnance. Hunter working for them as a consultant?

Hopefully American ordnance companies are busy making ordnance for the US military.

 

[Route 45]

Fear the unicorn Russia.

Ukraine's 'unicorn' LGBTQ soldiers head for war

As volunteer fighters Oleksandr Zhuhan and Antonina Romanova pack for a return to active duty, they contemplate the unicorn insignia that gives their uniform a rare distinction - a symbol of their status as an LGBTQ couple who are Ukrainian soldiers.

www.reuters.com

Likely quite a bit more combat effective in the real world than keyboard commandos.

 

[74 or more]

End the war
Stop mass illegal migration

 

[BigRed]

Saw obiden doing a campaign event in Ukraine.

One question that did not come up:

"Hey obiden, how's that invasion of the southern border of the States coming along, you ******* prick?"

 

[nra4ever]

Brighteon

Brighteon.com is a leading online free platform that empowers free speech, allowing individuals to freely share videos and express their thoughts without any form of censorship. Join us today and be part of our community.

www.brighteon.com

propaganda with elements of truth.

 

[nra4ever]

On presidents day no less. FEARLESS AND BRAVE.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hopefully American ordnance companies are busy making ordnance for the US military.

I believe I heard that one in Scranton is running flat out producing artillery shells.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

IRS might be able to spare some to loan the military.

 

[Libertarian01]

Who gives a ****? $700B or $1T, it's a lot of ****ing money to be in debt. And what we ended up with is a lot more ****ing money to be in debt! It's not a good attribute for Reagan.

Okay. Any of you "at all cost" folks hanging around want to take a crack at justifing any of this?

I'll answer both in the same answer.

For the first, you are in error, it was one of the greatest achievements of President Reagan! He took on an evil empire that pointed thousands of nuclear warheads at US! They threatened global nuclear annihilation. The continued global struggle with them took massive amounts of resources from us and our allies.

And then he broke them simply by outspending them. He took what was arguably the greatest threat to world safety, security, and prosperity and crippled them overnight. All for the very puny cost of about $2 or $3T. They were hit so hard by Reagan and their own collapse that they nave not nor will they ever recover. Birth rates after the fall of the USSR collapsed. Their educational sector collapsed. Healthcare is gone.

Did it hurt us financially? Sure it did. All progress has a cost. But it was ONLY financial damage - which we have easily weathered.

Do be mind-full that we sit here in the present. We know how everything has turned out. What if Pres Carter were reelected? What if the USSR wasn't broken? Where would we be today? I have no idea, but thank Heaven that Reagan did what he did!

Now for the last two (2) decades Vladimir Putin has attacked and bullied multiple countries on his boarders. Countries that were acknowledged as independent sovereign nations by EVERYONE when the Soviet Union collapsed. In most cases we (the west) has done nothing to stop him.

Now Putin is on his way to Poland, and Romania. He wasn't just trying to take Ukraine. He is trying to move through it to get to other countries, or at least key geographical regions in those countries.

Were he to succeed in Ukraine and then invade Poland (NATO member) or Romania (NATO member) we would come into direct military conflict with Russia. At which point the Russians would face two (2) choices, either total defeat not on their terms OR nuclear retaliation.

Imagine one (1) strategic nuclear warhead hitting "just" New York City. Let me rephrase that, hitting Wall Street! All the banks. All the insurance companies. The financial capital of the USA, and therefore much of western finance. We would lose more money in one day than all the monies we have poured into Ukraine combined with all money yet to pour in.

So, for myself, I will continue to support our financing of Ukraine for two (2) reasons. First, I believe it is the morally and ethically just thing to do. While we didn't promise their defense we did imply it when we pressured them to turn over nuclear weapons that were in their sovereign territory at the collapse of the USSR. Also, they didn't do anything to deserve being attacked. Second, I don't want to see our potential future severely crippled by coming into direct confrontation with them.

I do wish these were not on the table. Had the US and the world responded more forcefully when Putin attacked Chechnia, or Georgia, or Crimea, or Nagorno Karabov, or Transnistria, (my spelling is bad on many of these) then perhaps we wouldn't be here today.

I pray our children will sit around one day debating the pros and cons of our support of Ukraine. Debating in a world made more secure by the death of the Russian military over there.

Regards,

Doug

PS - My thoughts go out to Pres Carter and his family in their trying time.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'll answer both in the same answer.

For the first, you are in error, it was one of the greatest achievements of President Reagan! He took on an evil empire that pointed thousands of nuclear warheads at US! They threatened global nuclear annihilation. The continued global struggle with them took massive amounts of resources from us and our allies.

And then he broke them simply by outspending them. He took what was arguably the greatest threat to world safety, security, and prosperity and crippled them overnight. All for the very puny cost of about $2 or $3T. They were hit so hard by Reagan and their own collapse that they nave not nor will they ever recover. Birth rates after the fall of the USSR collapsed. Their educational sector collapsed. Healthcare is gone.

Did it hurt us financially? Sure it did. All progress has a cost. But it was ONLY financial damage - which we have easily weathered.

Do be mind-full that we sit here in the present. We know how everything has turned out. What if Pres Carter were reelected? What if the USSR wasn't broken? Where would we be today? I have no idea, but thank Heaven that Reagan did what he did!

Now for the last two (2) decades Vladimir Putin has attacked and bullied multiple countries on his boarders. Countries that were acknowledged as independent sovereign nations by EVERYONE when the Soviet Union collapsed. In most cases we (the west) has done nothing to stop him.

Now Putin is on his way to Poland, and Romania. He wasn't just trying to take Ukraine. He is trying to move through it to get to other countries, or at least key geographical regions in those countries.

Were he to succeed in Ukraine and then invade Poland (NATO member) or Romania (NATO member) we would come into direct military conflict with Russia. At which point the Russians would face two (2) choices, either total defeat not on their terms OR nuclear retaliation.

Imagine one (1) strategic nuclear warhead hitting "just" New York City. Let me rephrase that, hitting Wall Street! All the banks. All the insurance companies. The financial capital of the USA, and therefore much of western finance. We would lose more money in one day than all the monies we have poured into Ukraine combined with all money yet to pour in.

So, for myself, I will continue to support our financing of Ukraine for two (2) reasons. First, I believe it is the morally and ethically just thing to do. While we didn't promise their defense we did imply it when we pressured them to turn over nuclear weapons that were in their sovereign territory at the collapse of the USSR. Also, they didn't do anything to deserve being attacked. Second, I don't want to see our potential future severely crippled by coming into direct confrontation with them.

I do wish these were not on the table. Had the US and the world responded more forcefully when Putin attacked Chechnia, or Georgia, or Crimea, or Nagorno Karabov, or Transnistria, (my spelling is bad on many of these) then perhaps we wouldn't be here today.

I pray our children will sit around one day debating the pros and cons of our support of Ukraine. Debating in a world made more secure by the death of the Russian military over there.

Regards,

Doug

PS - My thoughts go out to Pres Carter and his family in their trying time.

Well, Doug. You are certainly NOT going to win friends and accolades form many of the posters on this thread. But I like it. . good Post!