Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[smokingman]

I looked at the second one and expected to see the familiar Babylon Bee logo.

That is from last April. That is why I posted the 196 billion(Foxnews article). It is not just military and humanitarian aid we send. We have also paid IMF loans Ukraine owes in addition to things like pensions. That sum does not include the billions we spent before January of 2022.

US leads the rest of the world with $196 billion given to Ukraine amid war with Russia

The U.S. under President Biden's leadership continues to send money, military supplies and humanitarian aid to Ukraine as the country continues fighting Russia.

www.foxnews.com

An Obama era fact sheet. It does not include money from the council on foreign relations and we did end up paying the loan guarantees to the IMF(2 billion) way back in 2015.

FACT SHEET: U.S. Assistance to Ukraine since February 2014

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

Ukraine GDP averaged 98.23 USD Billion from 1987 until 2021

Ukraine GDP - 2022 Data - 2023 Forecast - 1987-2021 Historical - Chart - News

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Ukraine was worth 200.09 billion US dollars in 2021, according to official data from the World Bank. The GDP value of Ukraine represents 0.09 percent of the world economy. GDP in Ukraine averaged 98.23 USD Billion from 1987 until 2021, reaching an all time...

tradingeconomics.com

 

[1DOWN4UP]

But no Bee.

 

[SEIndSAM]

 

[BigRed]

Zelenskyy tells allies "Hurry Up". Per ABC World news. Are they mad at him or what?

**** him.

 

[BigRed]

Why does he want to take money from our pockets to put money in their pockets? I can see wanting to help a nation keep its sovereignty and fight aggressors trying to take it. But this is going far beyond that mission.

Again I ask the people who favor this, do you have a limit? Is there no number too high, or no end to your willingness to sacrifice other people’s resources.

What’s next? We gonna help Ukrainian parents fund their kids’ college? Maybe we should buy them all electric cars. Ukrainians must like to vacation. Won't you support sending them money to take a cruise? No? You ****ing bigots. How heartless of you not to spend your own children’s future on the whims of war torn countries.

It's always easy for state to be "generous" with money they are plundering from the American citizen.

**** obiden, and **** state.

 

[smokingman]

So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld; and it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
George Washington

George Washington and The Peril of Foreign Entanglements | History News Network

History News Network puts current events into historical perspective.

historynewsnetwork.org

 

[Libertarian01]

Well I stopped reading after Reagan. We were actually well under $1 trillion when he took office and he is the first to take it into the trillions. Raising and spending far more than any president in history. No one else has ever came close. So you’re right just off on the amount. Of course Raegan proved he was anti gun and pro choice but anything was better than Carter. So everyone believed his lies, few really knew and to this day many remain ignorant of the man.

How, exactly, do you define "well under?"

In 1980, the national debt was $908 billion, within 10% of $1 trillion. The year Reagan took office (1981) the debt was $997 billion seven (7) monthes after he took office. To me that's well enough for rounding to say "...about $1T."

Now, in review, when he left office in 1989 the debt was about $2.8T, so he tripled it and didn't double it. Mea Culpa on the 250%+ increase.

Historical Debt Outstanding | U.S. Treasury Fiscal Data

Historical summary of the U.S. government’s total outstanding debt at the beginning of each fiscal year.

fiscaldata.treasury.gov

Regards,

Doug

 

[Leadeye]

Why does he want to take money from our pockets to put money in their pockets? I can see wanting to help a nation keep its sovereignty and fight aggressors trying to take it. But this is going far beyond that mission.

Again I ask the people who favor this, do you have a limit? Is there no number too high, or no end to your willingness to sacrifice other people’s resources.

What’s next? We gonna help Ukrainian parents fund their kids’ college? Maybe we should buy them all electric cars. Ukrainians must like to vacation. Won't you support sending them money to take a cruise? No? You ****ing bigots. How heartless of you not to spend your own children’s future on the whims of war torn countries.

I remember when the strategy was to "bleed out" the USSR, maybe that's what's being turned on America. We'll certainly last longer, but how much longer, and at what cost.

 

[DragonGunner]

How, exactly, do you define "well under?"

In 1980, the national debt was $908 billion, within 10% of $1 trillion. The year Reagan took office (1981) the debt was $997 billion seven (7) monthes after he took office. To me that's well enough for rounding to say "...about $1T."

Now, in review, when he left office in 1989 the debt was about $2.8T, so he tripled it and didn't double it. Mea Culpa on the 250%+ increase.

Historical Debt Outstanding | U.S. Treasury Fiscal Data

Historical summary of the U.S. government’s total outstanding debt at the beginning of each fiscal year.

fiscaldata.treasury.gov

Regards,

Doug

My sources say it was around 700 Billion. That’s way under, Raegan went hog wild on it that has never been matched since in %. So ya way under. Pick a source.

 

[Libertarian01]

I did pick my source, the United States Treasury. It is linked.

What is your source? I didn't notice a link...?

Regards,

Doug

 

[Route 45]

I remember when the strategy was to "bleed out" the USSR, maybe that's what's being turned on America. We'll certainly last longer, but how much longer, and at what cost.

In what world does 5% of our defense budget "bleed" us out? I'm not seeing Russia, which amounts to a giant third world gas station with nukes, bleeding out the United States and our allies.

If you are fine with Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union, just say so.

 

[BigRed]

If you are fine with Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union, just say so.

Those who are not can pony up my $9B fee and I'll put the ****** down.

God knows state won't...too much money to be made from this bull****..

 

[Wolfhound]

If we stop supporting Ukraine will those funds then be used to pay down the national debt or returned to tax payers? I would be happy to sign off on that.

 

[Leadeye]

In what world does 5% of our defense budget "bleed" us out? I'm not seeing Russia, which amounts to a giant third world gas station with nukes, bleeding out the United States and our allies.

If you are fine with Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union, just say so.

As I said, we will certainly last longer, but I don't have numbers on what the percentages were of the USSR spending back in the 70s-80s so I can only speculate how long.

As far as our allies I don't have their numbers either, but I suspect they are paying less than America is.

 

[jamil]

My sources say it was around 700 Billion. That’s way under, Raegan went hog wild on it that has never been matched since in %. So ya way under. Pick a source.

I did pick my source, the United States Treasury. It is linked.

What is your source? I didn't notice a link...?

Regards,

Doug

Who gives a ****? $700B or $1T, it's a lot of ****ing money to be in debt. And what we ended up with is a lot more ****ing money to be in debt! It's not a good attribute for Reagan.

 

[nra4ever]

 

[BigRed]

Careful....if you doubt ukraine you'll be labeled a putin lover.

 

[smokingman]

Why does he want to take money from our pockets to put money in their pockets? I can see wanting to help a nation keep its sovereignty and fight aggressors trying to take it. But this is going far beyond that mission.

Again I ask the people who favor this, do you have a limit? Is there no number too high, or no end to your willingness to sacrifice other people’s resources.

What’s next? We gonna help Ukrainian parents fund their kids’ college? Maybe we should buy them all electric cars. Ukrainians must like to vacation. Won't you support sending them money to take a cruise? No? You ****ing bigots. How heartless of you not to spend your own children’s future on the whims of war torn countries.

bout the college thing...

Ukrainians Studying in U.S. Granted Special Student Relief | BestColleges

The Department of Homeland Security designation provides college students from Ukraine flexibility to reduce course loads so they can support themselves and their families.

www.bestcolleges.com

There is no one in Ukrainian government that the US is not paying the salary of.

US Sending ‘Billions’ to Fund Ukraine Government Operations

The money comes from two bills passed by Congress

www.voanews.com

We pay most their medical care as well.

U.S. sends $1.7B in aid to pay Ukraine’s health care workers

The latest round of aid aims to address the acute budget deficit caused by the ongoing Russian invasion.

www.politico.com

and of course more Ukrainian debts,paid by the US taxpayer.

Why is the Biden administration paying off Ukraine’s debt but not ours? - Washington Examiner

“Biden administration allocates billions to pay down the budget deficit … in Ukraine.”This sounds like a parody headline from the Babylon Bee, but it is actually a real thing that’s happening under President Joe Biden’s watch.On Monday, the United States Agency for International Development, or...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[jamil]

Okay. Any of you "at all cost" folks hanging around want to take a crack at justifing any of this?

 

[BigRed]

US determines Russia has committed crimes against humanity in Ukraine, VP Harris says

Vice President Kamala Harris announced Saturday in Munich that the U.S. has determined that Russia has committed crimes against humanity in Ukraine.

news.yahoo.com

I think she meant "prostitutor". I would like to ask this **** about "crimes against humanity" committed by lincoln and his union, but that is a discussion for another thread.