Politically Motivated Violence Thread PART 2

[gregr]

May I ask if your opinion of Dolloff's action has changed during this discussion?

If not then the jury in the present climate may acquit him.

It appears to me that the shooter only put his hands on the other when the other became extremely aggressive and was coming at him. Likely, to punch or slap him, as he did anyway. The shooter responded to a apparently bigger, more aggressive attacker by using his firearm. That`s how it looked to me. But regardless, a jury will sort it all out.

 

[actaeon277]

Didn't we do this last year?

Yes

 

[Kutnupe14]

H

How is that different than other recent murders for “words”? “He attacked me first for calling me the *** word”!!! You know, “feelingz”!

Is this a serious question? Physically assaulting someone is a fair bit different than verbally assault.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Don’t want to get shot? Keep your hands to yourself.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Don’t want to get shot? Keep your hands to yourself.

Exactly! Michael brown and Trayvon martin should’ve kept their hands to themselves. We finally agree.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Don’t want to get shot? Keep your hands to yourself.

Truth here... some of Keltner's unwise decisions and actions led directly to his own death. That doesn't mean he deserved it nor that it was justified, just that he could have easily avoided it.

 

[Hkindiana]

Is this a serious question? Physically assaulting someone is a fair bit different than verbally assault.

I thought most people would see the implied PURPLE in my statement. However, those people would say “don’t want to get shot, don’t call me names”

 

[Kutnupe14]

I thought most people would see the implied PURPLE in my statement. However, those people would say “don’t want to get shot, don’t call me names”

Yeah, there’s no implied purple in that post. If that’s what you meant, you failed miserably.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

 

[KLB]

Pretty much uncalled for

 

[gregr]

Truth here... some of Keltner's unwise decisions and actions led directly to his own death. That doesn't mean he deserved it nor that it was justified, just that he could have easily avoided it.

He put himself in a volatile situation, and was overtly aggressive. He got in someone`s face, instigated physical contact, and caused someone, very likely, to fear for their life or physical well being. I`d say the shooting was justified, but again, a jury will sort it out.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Pretty much uncalled for

Meh. It’s an ingo provided emoji, and if he and a couple others wasn’t always trying to stir the pot just for the lol’s the emoji wouldn’t even get used.

 

[BugI02]

It appears to me that the shooter only put his hands on the other when the other became extremely aggressive and was coming at him. Likely, to punch or slap him, as he did anyway.

Don’t want to get shot? Keep your hands to yourself.

By what passes for 'logic' herein, I'm forced to conclude that Keltner should have drawn on security guard wannabe and stumped him - because, after all security guard wannabe had laid hands on him

You sure you want to go with that? That if Keltner had drawn on him and shot his ass, you'd be saying it was a good shoot?

Somehow, I think not

 

[SheepDog4Life]

He put himself in a volatile situation, and was overtly aggressive. He got in someone`s face, instigated physical contact, and caused someone, very likely, to fear for their life or physical well being. I`d say the shooting was justified, but again, a jury will sort it out.

Two things from your post...

One, I don't think Keltner initiated physical contact... pretty sure he was directing his invectives towards the news crew and was moving towards them when Dolloff stepped in between and physically attempted to stop him, put hands on him. We will see how that plays out in the evidence/testimony in court. Given the location, I'd be surprised if there isn't surveillance video but that it hasn't been publicly released.

Second, it's reasonable fear of imminent death or serious injury. One problem is Keltner was backing away. Another is that the prosecution doesn't have to enter ANY of Dolloff's statements to establish he killed Keltner... It's all in pictures and witness statements. No Zimmerman trial where he can stake the self-defense claim from interview tapes, without cross examination. I have a hard time seeing the defense mount credible self-defense without Dolloff taking the stand. He has a LOT of BLM and Antifa baggage.

And, I'm going to point this out because it will come up in trial... he had a red dot sight on his handgun and shot Keltner thru the eye. Prosecution will say he intended to kill Keltner, not "merely" stop him.

 

[Kutnupe14]

By what passes for 'logic' herein, I'm forced to conclude that Keltner should have drawn on security guard wannabe and stumped him - because, after all security guard wannabe had laid hands on him

You sure you want to go with that? That if Keltner had drawn on him and shot his ass, you'd be saying it was a good shoot?

Somehow, I think not

You’re calling a security guard placing himself in-between an aggressive advancing subject as “laid hands on,” and essentially implying that’s battery. Well that depends. Is it reasonable for another to believe that security guard thought that imminent harm was about to occur to his protectees? I personally think so. How do you interpret a person coming towards you saying “get the cameras out of here, or I’m going the $&@¥ you up”? Should a security guard not take that clear threat seriously, and just stand by the wayside? Him intervening and slowing Keltner’s advance isn’t not battery; at least not to me.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Kut, his apparent (from the news) lack of a license, and heck, not even wearing a Pinkerton wind breaker, throws something of a wrench in all of that.

Got a feeling the prosecutor will turn that into a "wanna be" type thing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut, his apparent (from the news) lack of a license, and heck, not even wearing a Pinkerton wind breaker, throws something of a wrench in all of that.

Got a feeling the prosecutor will turn that into a "wanna be" type thing.

I can agree that not being properly licensed is somewhat problematic, but ultimately, I think the security guard is covered. Most of us have seen two guys about to get into a fight, and some other guy gets between them often placing his hand on one if not both of the idiots. Listening to Bug, it would seem that if one of those guys decked him, they’d be covered because he placed a hand on them while trying to prevent them from engaging in violence. That just doesn’t seem reasonable to me. I’m not saying the guy deserved to be shot, but IMO his overall action and words illustrate that he was clearly the aggressor.

 

[flatlander]

My blood pressure sure has come down since I discovered the IGNORE feature for the trolls!

 

[jamil]

Nah. If it’s a fair trial Dolloff’s going to prison. But this is the land of fairies and pixie dust and a number of potential jurors who are sympathetic to seeing right-wingers get theirs. Probably gonna be at least one or two Kut’s on the jury.

Had the security guard not used excessive force I have no doubt Keltner could have been charged with assault. But getting bitch slapped isn’t a deadly force situation. Yeah, sure, it’s embarrassing AF. Either fight back or go home and cry to mommy, but you don’t draw and shoot over that.

 

[KLB]

I can agree that not being properly licensed is somewhat problematic, but ultimately, I think the security guard is covered. Most of us have seen two guys about to get into a fight, and some other guy gets between them often placing his hand on one if not both of the idiots. Listening to Bug, it would seem that if one of those guys decked him, they’d be covered because he placed a hand on them while trying to prevent them from engaging in violence. That just doesn’t seem reasonable to me. I’m not saying the guy deserved to be shot, but IMO his overall action and words illustrate that he was clearly the aggressor.

How do you justify his shooting someone retreating as being reasonable?