Politically Motivated Violence Thread PART 2

[churchmouse]

I have the hammer polished up and loaded.

 

[Mikey1911]

I have the hammer polished up and loaded.

Peter, Paul, and Mary approve CM’s message
(and will vote for Biden, whether dead or alive)

https://youtu.be/XxWTDcP9Y5E

 

[BugI02]

I have the hammer polished up and loaded.

View attachment 92037

Ooh! So sparkly!​

 

[Keith_Indy]

Where are go getting this “reach into his vest” stuff? What, you think he was trying to pickpocket the guy? I looks like given the body language (deceased leaning in) that Doloff is trying maintain distance by raising his hand, and is subsequently slapped. Doloff then begins to draw down on the deceased, and the deceased begins to deploy spray. At that point he gets smoked. Other those who are obviously sympathetic to a person who they see as being representative of “their side,” I don’t see how anyone can say that this shooting was over the top. Shot by shot, it seems good.

 

[maxipum]

Is mace a deadly weapon? If it is now “Ok” to shoot people who use mace there is going to be a lot of dead people shortly.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Is mace a deadly weapon? If it is now “Ok” to shoot people who use mace there is going to be a lot of dead people shortly.

Even worse, someone who just slapped you and is now several feet away backing up is now a justified shooting?

 

[KG1]

IDK. In this shot it looks like maybe he was trying to stop him from going after someone else and was rebuffed with a slap. They then separated and the shooter drew his gun. I still think the shooter went for his gun because he got slapped and the guy that got shot deployed his propellant in an effort to keep from getting shot.

 

[OakRiver]

Based on the little we know so far; deceased is prevented from moving towards someone by Dolloff. Deceased slaps Doloff in the face with an open palm. Deceased takes several steps back. Dolloff appears to reach for his concealed firearm while the deceased has the mace in a neutral position, arm by his side and not pointed at anyone.

Assuming that those are the facts, and that those facts stand, I am interested in seeing how Dolloff manages to claim that he used his firearm to defend himself or others. I'm also interested to see how he explains being a plain clothes private security detail, without having completed the requisite training.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Based on the little we know so far; deceased is prevented from moving towards someone by Dolloff. Deceased slaps Doloff in the face with an open palm. Deceased takes several steps back. Dolloff appears to reach for his concealed firearm while the deceased has the mace in a neutral position, arm by his side and not pointed at anyone.

Assuming that those are the facts, and that those facts stand, I am interested in seeing how Dolloff manages to claim that he used his firearm to defend himself or others. I'm also interested to see how he explains being a plain clothes private security detail, without having completed the requisite training.

OK, here is the FULL sequence of photos from the Denver Post photographer... I wont link to the rest here except for 2 additional ones...

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/denver-protest-shooting-photos-full-sequence/

 

[jamil]

Where are go getting this “reach into his vest” stuff? What, you think he was trying to pickpocket the guy? I looks like given the body language (deceased leaning in) that Doloff is trying maintain distance by raising his hand, and is subsequently slapped. Doloff then begins to draw down on the deceased, and the deceased begins to deploy spray. At that point he gets smoked. Other those who are obviously sympathetic to a person who they see as being representative of “their side,” I don’t see how anyone can say that this shooting was over the top. Shot by shot, it seems good.

As shown in the post above, there was some commentary on one of the photos here, but notice that I did say or whatever. I'm not sure it was because the "security guard" tried to get into his vest, or as was reported, there was another photo somewhere where it looked like he was trying to grab his mace. It's fair to say, given the lack of context--we don't know what happened in the seconds between the guy's disengaging the "Black Guns Matter" shirt, and the beginning of the photo sequence. I have just as much claim that "I don't see how you can say it seemed good" as you have for the other. You seem considerably more sympathetic to one side than the other too. I'm sure I have bias. You do too. I did not see self defense there. If the guy was drawing before the spray was deployed, I have to ask why? The thing that came just before that was the ***** slap. That's not a deadly force kind of thing. It looked to me like the spray was deployed as a reaction to the guy going for his gun. Sure that can be bias. I'm perhaps more biased against the "security guard" because I think he's ****ty. It is clear enough that he has a very left slant on things. Being where he was and seeing how things went down, it is not apparent that he had his client's best interest at the forefront. If he thought there was a threat there, why not move to get the people he's there to protect out of harms way? Short of that, why did he not try to deescalate things? And why did he engage the mad guy? Was he there to protect his clients or was he there to become involved in taking a side other than protecting his client?

He's going to be brought up on charges for not having a license. I still hear conflicting information about whether he's been charged with murder. I'm gonna say at this moment, I don't think so. And I'm not sure if he will be charged with that. But they're going to throw the book at him for the license issue.

 

[jamil]

OK, here is the FULL sequence of photos from the Denver Post photographer... I wont link to the rest here except for 2 additional ones...

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/denver-protest-shooting-photos-full-sequence/

How dare you smack me! ... Bang.

 

[Keith_Indy]

I don't recall where I saw it, but Dollofs lawyers statement said to the effect, that Dollof thought the victim was "reaching for a gun" when he shot him.

 

[OakRiver]

OK, here is the FULL sequence of photos from the Denver Post photographer... I wont link to the rest here except for 2 additional ones...

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/denver-protest-shooting-photos-full-sequence/

So, based on what we have seen so far, and acknowledging that may be subject to change as and when new facts emerge:
- deceased advances on person in blue t-shirt
- Dolloff steps between and attempts to prevent deceased's advance
- deceased strikes Dolloff across the face with an open palm
- deceased steps back
- Dolloff re-initiates, or escalates depending on whether you see the step back as the deceased disengaging, a confrontation by drawing a concealed firearm
- as Dolloff reached for his concealed firearm the deceased is still holding a canister of face, with his arm in a neutral position, the mace pointed towards the ground, and not pointed at any person
- from here Dolloff draws his concealed firearm and there is a shot. The deceased discharges his mace. It is not certain in which order these two actions take place. As Dolloff appears to have been the first to escalate to the use of weapons the deceased's actions may have been pre-emptive, fearing a threat to his life due to the firearm being drawn, or he may have discharged the mace at around the same time as the shot

 

[johny5]

IDK. In this shot it looks like maybe he was trying to stop him from going after someone else and was rebuffed with a slap. They then separated and the shooter drew his gun. I still think the shooter went for his gun because he got slapped and the guy that got shot deployed his propellant in an effort to keep from getting shot.

 

[OakRiver]

I don't recall where I saw it, but Dollofs lawyers statement said to the effect, that Dollof thought the victim was "reaching for a gun" when he shot him.

The prosecutor could have a field day with that:
"He struck you with an open left hand, and for the time directly preceding that he had a can of mace in his right hand. At no time did the deceased use the can of mace on you, make any furtive gestures, or attempt to replace the can of mace with a firearm. What exactly made you think that he was in the process of reaching for a firearm? Had you actually completed the required training for security in the state of Colorado, would that have better equipped you to resolve this situation without discharging your firearm, or assisted you in recognizing that the deceased was not in the process of retrieving a firearm?"

 

[jamil]

I don't recall where I saw it, but Dollofs lawyers statement said to the effect, that Dollof thought the victim was "reaching for a gun" when he shot him.

That doesn't appear evident. He slapped Doloff with one hand. Had a can of mace in the other.

But. I'm gonna back off on some things. If the guy in the blue shirt behind him was the client, it could be that Doloff had his arm out to prevent the guy from coming closer to the client, which would make me think more that he was actually doing his job. But it's still not a good shoot because I don't see anything there that a reasonable person should be afraid for their life to justify deadly force. None of us were there. We just see a series of photos. If I were in Doloff's place I would not draw and shoot for what I can see of the circumstances. I might have stepped in and held my arm out to keep him from getting closer to a client. And getting ***** slapped would certainly have pissed me off. I hope to think could have handled it better not to have put myself in a position to be slapped like that.

 

[Alpo]

Doloff. Guilty. Do not pass "Go". Do not collect $200.

I hate it when the press manufactures the news. The gay black dude arguing with his opponents sure looks like a photo op setup for the news. The photographer is apparently an antifa supporter/member.

This whole thing stinks, but I think Doloff will end up in Cañon City.

 

[jamil]

Doloff. Guilty. Do not pass "Go". Do not collect $200.

I hate it when the press manufactures the news. The gay black dude arguing with his opponents sure looks like a photo op setup for the news. The photographer is apparently an antifa supporter/member.

This whole thing stinks, but I think Doloff will end up in Cañon City.

Wow. I did not expect this. You're more sure about it than I am, and I'm right of center. I'm not sure he's actually an Antifa member, but it does look like he's at least a supporter. I do agree with you that it's not a justifiable shoot, but I don't think I'm as sure as you.

 

[Keith_Indy]

I want to know, who is this cool as cucumbers guy in the blue shirt who had been trying to deescalate the confrontation... (Interestingly, when I did a google image search for his face it didn't bring any image results, but did return this "Possible related search: gentleman")

Also, what is needed is orange guys phone... video would show a better angle of what the victim was seeing that drew him away from BGM guy.

MY NEW BELIEF: based on the following 3 frames in sequence, this was an negligent discharge. Finger was on trigger before the sights were lined up. This is, of course, supposition on my part.

1 - look at where shooters face and attention seem to be as he starts to draw gun. Not on the victim, but past the victim.

2 - at the moment of the shot, his head is not pointed towards the shooter, it appears as if he's looking beyond the target.

3 - beyond the target the heavy set person looks as if they were drawing a weapon.

So, let me lay out what I think might have happened...

1 - the slap occurs
2 - the victim is pulling back
3 - heavy set person is reaching into their vest
4 - the shooter sees that, and starts drawing
5 - the shooter puts finger to trigger before the sights are lined up
6 - negligent discharge

JUST GUESSING HERE

 

[Keith_Indy]

Wow. I did not expect this. You're more sure about it than I am, and I'm right of center. I'm not sure he's actually an Antifa member, but it does look like he's at least a supporter. I do agree with you that it's not a justifiable shoot, but I don't think I'm as sure as you.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-denver-jacob-kelly-leader-antifa-blm-denver/

The man’s name is Jacob Kelly. He’s one of the leaders of the Denver area Antifa-Black Lives Matter (BLM) insurgents. This is the guy that was starting all of the fights. As you can see, the Denver Post photographer we mentioned last night, Helen Richardson, is always right next to him capturing the action. He was involved in multiple previous assaults and was arrested several times by the Denver PD.