police questioning a minor - procedural???

[philo]

A student's phone (Iphone 4) went missing at my sons school this am. My son was not in the class where it was discovered missing, but his best friend (and 25+ others) was. In a later class period my son's friend was seen playing a video game on a phone(my son's Iphone 3) that was incorrectly id'd as the missing phone.

Police were called, friend was mirandized, parents called to the school, questioned, patted down, locker and backpack searched, no results.

My son was taken out of 2 seperate class periods and questioned as well. He was required to provide a signed statement. I understand at least 2 other boys were also questioned and required to provide a signed statement.

Here's my concern...my son and at least 2 others were questioned at length with no representation (parental or legal). They are all minors. They were required to sign a written statement - I still don't know exactly what was in the statement or whether it was an accurate representation of what went down. My son, like many teens, is goofy enough to sign something without reading it over carefully. Also, like many teens, he doesn't know what he does and doesn't need to answer.

Is it appropriate to question minors without parental approval or even knowledge?

 

[Doug]

Is it appropriate? No.
Will they do it? Apparently, yes.
Is it legal? I suspect not, but I also suspect they don't care.
And, I believe it is true that the Police can tell any lie to anyone in an attempt to get information and/or a confession without any repercussions.
As in, "Your buddy said it was your idea. Sign this statement that you only helped steal the phone and I'll see to it you don't do jail time."

As has been discussed before, many feel that minors should be instructed not to talk to authorities without parents present. This includes school officials.
Your mileage may vary, but I learned that school officials are much more concerned with what's convenient for them than what is best for the students.

 

[jzukjr]

i wouldn't think its appropriate but the police officer was doing his or her job. whomever had called about the phone that was your sons obviously needs to get an iphone update in their own right. however, having gone through school for two years to obtain an associates degree they followed protocol to the t. were you notified at all about this or were you just told after school?

 

[philo]

Not notified at all. We found out from our son, and called the friends mom as well.

 

[Rookie]

At the very least it is case law.
Still searching but I did find this.
INTERROGATION OF JUVENILES

I think it my be derived/expanded from this:
Right to Counsel:

In a delinquency proceeding, the juvenile is entitled to be represented by counsel who may represent him/her without a conflict of interest. The court can appoint an attorney for the juvenile, without any cost to the juvenile, if the juvenile desires one. If the court does give the juvenile a court appointed attorney, at the time of disposition the court must make a decision whether the parents must reimburse the county for all or part of the cost of the court-appointed attorney. A juvenile can waive his right to an attorney if that waiver is joined by the juvenile's custodial parent, guardian, custodian or guardian ad litem. The juvenile's parent, guardian, custodian, or guardian ad litem may waive the juvenile's right to an attorney if they knowingly and voluntarily waive the right, and if they have no interest adverse to the juvenile, and if meaningful consultation has occurred between them and the juvenile, and if the juvenile knowingly and voluntarily joins with the waiver.

Interesting reading
http://www.scican.net/~morgansup2/delinq.html#3

Taken from a thread in general political discussion

 

[Rookie]

My children know that if they are ever pulled from class or taken to the office, the only words out of their mouths are to be, "call my parents".

 

[vitamink]

Did the police do the questioning? Anyone can ask your kid whatever. If he admits stealing the phone to his guidance councilor then he's SOL. If it was the police doing the questioning and your son gets arrested, then any evidence gained would be thrown out. Just the police asking your son questions is perfectly legal, using the admission of guilt isn't. i.e. if the police show up and say, "did you take this kids phone?", he says," yes" then hands the phone over, the admission of theft couldn't be used however his ability to take the phone, his possessing the phone, the phone not belonging to him and the original owner not giving him permission to have the phone would get him locked up.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

There was recently a thread on this topic... https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...to_the_police_do_your_children.html?highlight=

There is a case before the SCOTUS that may address this - J.D.B. v. North Carolina : SCOTUSblog

 

[E5RANGER375]

tell your kid never to sign or give any statement without you present. only a judge can force you to do something, and even then if your willing to get locked up you dont have to comply. if my kid stole, and I knew they were guilty, I wouldnt turn them over to the cops first, sorry! i would turn that ass cherry red when we got home and they would be giving whatever they stole back in person and manning up for their actions. then if the cops got involved so be it, but I, I, I, I, I, will be the one issuing first justice to my own children!

i dont believe police intervention is always the best first coarse of action in some cases. i would still feel like I failed as a parent though, because i know I would have raised the kid to know better and understand consequences to stupid actions. if the police got involved and the courts, the parents are the ones paying too. court and lawyers arent free, and since it my kid, im not gonna make tax payers foot the bill for a public defender when I would be the spawns father/

 

[Gabriel]

Did the police do the questioning? Anyone can ask your kid whatever. If he admits stealing the phone to his guidance councilor then he's SOL. If it was the police doing the questioning and your son gets arrested, then any evidence gained would be thrown out. Just the police asking your son questions is perfectly legal, using the admission of guilt isn't. i.e. if the police show up and say, "did you take this kids phone?", he says," yes" then hands the phone over, the admission of theft couldn't be used however his ability to take the phone, his possessing the phone, the phone not belonging to him and the original owner not giving him permission to have the phone would get him locked up.

This...and Ranger's advice above. If the school wants to question your kids, your kids should know to keep quiet and simply ask for their parents to be there.

 

[joslar15]

tell your kid never to sign or give any statement without you present. only a judge can force you to do something, and even then if your willing to get locked up you dont have to comply. if my kid stole, and I knew they were guilty, I wouldnt turn them over to the cops first, sorry! i would turn that ass cherry red when we got home and they would be giving whatever they stole back in person and manning up for their actions. then if the cops got involved so be it, but I, I, I, I, I, will be the one issuing first justice to my own children!

i dont believe police intervention is always the best first coarse of action in some cases. i would still feel like I failed as a parent though, because i know I would have raised the kid to know better and understand consequences to stupid actions. if the police got involved and the courts, the parents are the ones paying too. court and lawyers arent free, and since it my kid, im not gonna make tax payers foot the bill for a public defender when I would be the spawns father/

For sure! If my 17 year old son got "bested" by two teenage girls, he'd probably get it for that as well!

 

[sepe]

I had something like this happen to me 2 times in high school. One time a kid was stealing from the school computer labs. A couple people that knew him (not even friends since he didn't really have any) were questioned and since I didn't really like the kid, I said what I knew and ended up getting a little more evidence (kid was bragging about making bombs as well as stealing from the school). I had no problem talking about that since the kid was a d-bag.

The other time, I pretty much knew what it was about when I got escorted to the office by the principal and vice principal. I also knew how things would go down since they had pretty much caught 1 person and were trying to get more evidence. My only response was "nope, I don't go to parties and I don't know anything." I got sent back to class and 5 other guys said the same thing. They talked to the 1 kid they pretty much caught and he was like "yep, I did it. nobody else was involved at all." I was asked questions for about half an hour and my answer remained the same.

The 2nd time they had police there and I told the principal and vice principal that I didn't know anything and I wasn't going to talk to anyone but them. They said that would be ok since I wasn't ever a trouble maker (at least never got caught). The first time, I talked to the principal and was called in a few days later after giving the d-bag a ride home and ASKED to talk to the police and the police only. Since the kid was on probation already, the police asked some questions (they thought he was behind some lame attempts at pipe bombs but didn't have evidence) and I felt that it was best to just go ahead and answer them. I knew that there wasn't going to be an issue come up for me so they got the answers they needed.

Normally, I wouldn't be willing to give any information in a situation like that but the kid had been blowing up headstones. I knew the proper way to handle things (just as I wouldn't talk to the police in the 2nd situation and since I had convinced the principal and vice principal that I was pretty much clueless, they didn't push anything).

As far as answering without parents or legal representation present, I wouldn't have ever done it unless I KNEW 100% I was helping the police catch someone that was doing something pretty destructive. The police officer took some notes and ended up talking to another person who gave the exact details that I did, a few days later the d-bag kid was in juvie.

In the 2nd situation, I actually passed people in the hall on the way back to class that were going to be questioned. They didn't really know what they were suppose to do so as I passed them I simply said "say nothing." They passed that on when they passed people in the hall on the way to the office.

 

[AZ Hunter]

Oh your guys heads would spin if you were witness to the types of referral's (arrests) I see on a day to day basis in my job. Lots of said referrals come from the schools where more often than not the principal is the adult 3rd party. I will say this, the work I do...if said minor screws up, said minor is getting arrested, his rights are being read to him, and more often than not everything that comes out of his or her mouth will be used against them in Court the next day. I don't know how much things differ in IN than AZ ( yea we are a little crazy out here) but if your dumbass kid chooses not to exercise his absolute right to shut his/her mouth, then they should be ready to face the concequences. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. (Probation in 99% of cases)

On a side note....I am not that old and still I feel I grew up in a different time. There aren't very many "bad" kids...most just make very "bad" choices. Unfortunately now a days most utilize the Courts to hand out their punishments "mommy and daddy"....so sad!

 

[jzukjr]

My children know that if they are ever pulled from class or taken to the office, the only words out of their mouths are to be, "call my parents".

thats the way every child should be

 

[jzukjr]

Not notified at all. We found out from our son, and called the friends mom as well.

well thats a bunch of crap. the school is supposed to notify parents for something as simple as "worrying about behavior" let alone something of this magnitude.

 

[E5RANGER375]

well thats a bunch of crap. the school is supposed to notify parents for something as simple as "worrying about behavior" let alone something of this magnitude.

sue the school. seriously. the only way they are gonna do what we as parents want is when we start holding them accountable. If they dont do it right, then the money gets cut. before my daughter gets into middle school, I will be running for school board. i will be the constant thorn in those administrators asses to do it right.

 

[JetGirl]

Is it appropriate to question minors without parental approval or even knowledge?

What was the school's statement to you about this when you called to inquire?
If you didn't call...get on it.

 

[PistolBob]

In the good old days (1970's) when I would get busted at school for acting stupid, I would be called down to the "boys adviser" office. I'd get 10 minutes of verbal gnawing from the boys adviser, and then he'd turn the phone around and tell me to get my mom or dad on the line. I would, he'd then tell my mom (I never called dad) that I was about to get three whacks, which would be witnessed by the "girls adviser". Mom would tell the guy that I'd be lucky to only get three more at home that night. They'd hang up, the girls adviser would come in, and the whacking of my ass would begin...then I'd go back to class. When I got home, my dad would then dole out at least three more. Rinse and repeat. In the 8th grade, I got whacked no less than 30 strokes during the course of the year...at school.

 

[E5RANGER375]

In the good old days (1970's) when I would get busted at school for acting stupid, I would be called down to the "boys adviser" office. I'd get 10 minutes of verbal gnawing from the boys adviser, and then he'd turn the phone around and tell me to get my mom or dad on the line. I would, he'd then tell my mom (I never called dad) that I was about to get three whacks, which would be witnessed by the "girls adviser". Mom would tell the guy that I'd be lucky to only get three more at home that night. They'd hang up, the girls adviser would come in, and the whacking of my ass would begin...then I'd go back to class. When I got home, my dad would then dole out at least three more. Rinse and repeat. In the 8th grade, I got whacked no less than 30 strokes during the course of the year...at school.

it was that way for me going through school too. and not as long ago as you. there was none of this cops patrolling the halls bull crap. Parents now expect others to raise their children for them and teach them right and wrong. our society had became so hands off in an attempt to be politically correct and accepting of "all types" that we are not a nation of excuse makers who dont hold each other accountable for our actions. the children in this country are growing up to be failures because they are surrounded by adults who are failures and setting bad examples. you can be the most book smart person in the world, and still be a complete waste of air, and a detriment to society. but our kids arent even getting smarter, they are getting dumber. thanks to all the "smart" people who have a easy fix solution to all the worlds problems, its called "time out"

 

[Annie Oakley]

If a minor is only a witness then no parent is required. If the minor is a suspect than parents must be there. I don't know any officers who are going to try "frame" a minor who is a witness.