Pistol sold only to anyone having a LTCH?

[M88A1]

ALCON,

Is it required to have a LTCH to buy a pistol from a private individual or dealer in Indiana? From What I have read in the IC and on here the answer is no. But I see members selling pistols but requiring the purchaser to have a LTCH. Is this a CYA thing?

 

[MrsGungho]

the answer is no, it is a CYA thing for private sales. I suggest a receipt to CYA with the buyers info and gun info on it.

 

[eldirector]

Yeah, CYA. The LTCH makes it easy to validate they are a "proper person". Takes the guesswork out of it. The law does not require ANY paperwork for private sales. Bills of sale, receipts, LTCH, whatever, are up to the individual selling.

 

[M88A1]

It just dont seem right to put upon someone more than the state requires, because you really dont need it for CYA. A bill of sale containing all the weapon info is enough for that. This site promotes 2nd Amendment rights but this just feels like a imposed restriction by individuals making it up as they go along.....just dont seem right on here.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Mrs. Gungho is right. It is not required by law. That said I can require ANYTHING of you or else not sell it to you... Heck I could say " I won't sell it to you unless you have a monkey for an avatar" - but then JetGirl and Spazmodicus would get all of the cool guns...

In reality, it's just a way to assure the buyer that you are a "proper person" and that they can sell you their handgun legally. It helps to demonstrate that you are legal to own the gun. So yeah it's CYA, but it's not unreasonable if they don't know you.

I support the free rights of the market. If they eliminate a group of potential buyers by requiring an LTCH, then that's their right - and it HURTS their price, if anything... Buy it from someone that DOESN'T require it.

 

[melensdad]

It just dont seem right to put upon someone more than the state requires, because you really dont need it for CYA. A bill of sale containing all the weapon info is enough for that. This site promotes 2nd Amendment rights but this just feels like a imposed restriction by individuals making it up as they go along.....just dont seem right on here.

So how do you plan to establish that the person you are selling the gun to is not a felon or other disqualified person? Asking for the LTCH gives the seller some assurance that the buyer is legally allowed to buy a gun and would constitute 'proper person' in the eyes of the Indiana laws. Without that, or without a background check, if you are selling a gun to a stranger how do you propose to establish them as a proper person?

 

[snowrs]

I guess it is two fold, an easy way to make them feel more comfortable, ie if I sold a gun to someone and it was used in a crime I would feel bad regardless of a BoS. I alsobet they would've OKmeeteting at an FFL and doing a transfer.

 

[orange]

So how do you plan to establish that the person you are selling the gun to is not a felon or other disqualified person? Asking for the LTCH gives the seller some assurance that the buyer is legally allowed to buy a gun and would constitute 'proper person' in the eyes of the Indiana laws. Without that, or without a background check, if you are selling a gun to a stranger how do you propose to establish them as a proper person?

Like this.

"You a felon or somebody else that legally can't own a gun?"

I don't have an LTCH and I own handguns (legally! whoa!) so it seems fair to give somebody else the same benefit of the doubt. Unless they come down wanting to trade the gun for a baggie of crack rocks, they're probably alright.

 

[LEaSH]

I generally don't believe the word of a stranger.

You give me your word that you'll pay my legal fees if I mistakenly sell to an improper person, Orange?

Depending on what part of the state it happens in, some prosecuting attorneys have no problem dragging someone over the coals at the expense of the tax payers.

 

[cosermann]

Stop whining and crying about the terms under which someone freely decides to sell their own private property. No one's forcing you to buy anything. Works both ways.

Come to think of it, I'm going to require the buyer of the next gun I make available on INGO to sing the Star Spangled Banner first, all 4 verses; just because.

I mean, how many felons can do that!? If that's not proof of proper person-hood, I don't know what is.

 

[Ash]

I've not responded to a couple of ads on here in the handgun for-sales for that very reason. But, as mentioned, it's their right to ask for what they want to see upon sale of their property.

 

[snowrs]

Really as of right now owning a handgun in Indiana without a permit is really just asking for trouble. You cannot legally take it offyourproperty to shoot it. And if you bought it from a private party and have it in your vehicle I believe it is all ready illegal.

 

[CalebToNowhere]

I fill out a proof of sale template i have made with the serial number of the firearm, both buyer/seller name and signature, date and statement of "no felony conviction" just to cover myself. Sometimes i even put a pic of the firearm on it. I don't require an LTCH.

 

[Ash]

And if you bought it from a private party and have it in your vehicle I believe it is all ready illegal.

Not if you just purchased it and are on the way to your place of residence. Same as if purchased from a FFL. (Get a bill of sale and contact information from the seller if you want.)
As of July 1st, I will be able to secure my handguns and take them to a range... legally in the eyes of the state of Indiana.

Cheers

 

[The Keymaster]

The bottom line is my sale my rules. If i ask for an LTCH, you are within your rights not to provide on. That just means you will be buying from someone else, and not me.

 

[Mr. Habib]

The law does not require the seller to know that the buyer is a proper person. The law only requires that the seller does not know, or have reason to believe, that the buyer is not prohibited from possessing firearms. As the seller, if I don't know that you cannot own guns, then I am legal. BTW, for all of you that do ask for a LTCH, how do you know that it is valid? How would you know that it wasn't revoked or forged? For me, a simple bill of sale signed by the buyer would be sufficient.

 

[NovemberKilo]

I've always asked for I.D. and an LTCH when selling firearms and I always get a receipt with gun info and signature.

I'm not that worried about covering my ass, but I've always done this and have never had any problems.

As others have mentioned, I would disagree with the state implementing a statute requiring this - but I don't at all disagree with the private market setting its own standard...

Besides, as far as I am concerned, it reflects positively on us as we are being proactive the best way we can in ensuring that "good guys" are buying from and selling to other "good guys." That's not to say there aren't a lot of "good guys" without an LTCH, or that there aren't some "bad guys" that have gotten one... But it's an extra level of assurance.

 

[E5RANGER375]

is there even a burden of proof for an individual to make sure the buyer is a "proper person"? I dont think there is. heres my requirements; at least 18, not a felon, and an indiana resident. i'll ask you and take your word on it. im a regular guy, not a cop. it doesnt take much on my end to be covered. individuals have no right to ask even for ID. just like I dont have to show it or fill out a bill of sale. I can just walk away.

 

[leftsock]

LTCH gives no assurance. A little pink piece of paper can be produced by anyone with a printer and the mindset to do so.

Generally I ask questions along the lines of "are you a resident of Indiana?" and "is there any reason why you can't own a handgun?" I'm no worse off than looking at or copying down information of falsified documents and fake IDs.

 

[cosermann]

It's true that a pink piece of paper can be forged. People do the same thing with driver's licenses and other forms of ID. Short of running a background check (and those sometimes have mistakes in them), you really can't be 100% sure.

However, that does not mean that asking for a LTCH, ID, providing a receipt, etc. are worthless. These things could represent what a reasonable person might do during such a transaction and could serve to bolster your argument that you exercised due care in the course of the transaction if you were ever called on it.

Given that, I'm not aware of anyone who has ever been called on it. Maybe some of the legal types around here could share some relevant case law with us (if any exists on this subject).

I'll not begrudge anyone for selling their stuff however they want, nor anyone for refusing to buy it.