No weapons signage at airport

[Drail]

Does the nice lady at the airport seem surprised at all by the attention this subject is getting? And thank you again for your efforts.

 

[Hoosier8]

Does the nice lady at the airport seem surprised at all by the attention this subject is getting? And thank you again for your efforts.

Not at all. She has not mentioned any other requests. I have no idea if she is working on any others.

 

[Drail]

Hoosier8, I like your avatar photo. That's an unusual finish with the blue bottom/hard chrome top end. Back in the old days everybody seemed to go with the Wilson Combat classic hard chrome bottom/blued top end. Is that your pistol? It's very nice.

 

[Hoosier8]

Hoosier8, I like your avatar photo. That's an unusual finish with the blue bottom/hard chrome top end. Back in the old days everybody seemed to go with the Wilson Combat classic hard chrome bottom/blued top end. Is that your pistol? It's very nice.

It just looks that way in the picture with the red background, here is a better picture. It is a Kimber CDP Pro II and it is mat black and silver and my daily carry. It carries very well with the alloy frame.

 

[Drail]

I"ll bet it shoots very well also with an alloy bottom end. Is that frontstrap checkered 30 lines per inch? My old eyes can't quite make it out. I used to do 30 line with files many years ago but not anymore. That's a beautiful 1911. I love bull barrel 1911s.

 

[Feign]

Finding out how to get permission. Will let you know when I find out.

Here is the Airport Ordinance 1-1986 Section 2.13

Did you get that image from the airport lady? I'd like to see what other ridiculous rules they've decided to impose upon law-abiding customers of their "fine establishment."

 

[techres]

Did you get that image from the airport lady? I'd like to see what other ridiculous rules they've decided to impose upon law-abiding customers of their "fine establishment."

The issue here is "by what authority" do they have to make arrest or prosecution?

That really is the only question.

Have they been asked that direct question, and has it been answered?

If not, then the next question is who is the best person to ask? An individual or an organization? A lawyer?

 

[AFA1CY]

Here you go, read to your heart's content:

Indiana Code TITLE 8, Article 22 Table of Contents

Esp IC 8-22-3-10

 

[techres]

Here you go, read to your heart's content:

Indiana Code TITLE 8, Article 22 Table of Contents

Esp IC 8-22-3-10

Thanks. But with a quick read (am at work), I do not see where there is any authority here to override IN State law. The only two things I noticed were these:

IC 8-22-3-32
Violations; offense
Sec. 32. A person who recklessly violates this chapter commits a Class B misdemeanor.
As added by Acts 1980, P.L.8, SEC.73.

IC 8-22-3-34
Special police; powers
Sec. 34. (a) The special police authorized by this chapter possess all the common law and statutory powers of the police of the entity that established the authority by ordinance, including the power of fresh pursuit upon adjoining streets and roads.
(b) An operator (as defined in IC 5-23-2-8) who enters into an operating agreement with an authority under IC 5-23 may exercise the special police powers granted by this section during the term of the operating agreement. A person employed by an operator to exercise special police powers under this subsection must have training that is at least equivalent to the minimum training requirements established for law enforcement officers under IC 5-2-1.
(c) This section does not apply to an authority that was established under IC 19-6-3 (before its repeal on April 1, 1980).
As added by Acts 1980, P.L.8, SEC.73. Amended by P.L.3-1990, SEC.44; P.L.84-1996, SEC.1; P.L.49-1997, SEC.37.

But at most these are about the enforcement of current law, not the creation or modification of law so as to supersede existing law. Basically here is the TSA & airport saying "we will arrest you" and then until there is an actual case arrest they will stand by their "authority" to do so.

The problem is, we have the law on our side as of now and are in a position to argue against "fake new laws". Leave those signs up for 4-5 years and the law which is on our side will suddenly be called "an old loophole that obviously needs closed".

Anyone else with more time at this second, and a legal mind, see any real authority here that overrides state carry laws?

 

[AFA1CY]

Thanks. But with a quick read (am at work), I do not see where there is any authority here to override IN State law. ... snip ...

That would fall under the "cities can ban firearms on their property" code.

FWIW The airport police now falls under the IMPD umbrella.

 

[ralphb72]

So the real question is, Is the Airport authority an actual municipal agency which can indeed ban firearms on it's own property? Do they have the legal authority to do what they apparently have already done but never enforced until now?

 

[ralphb72]

Who is your legislator? I'm writing mine.

Click below:

Who's Your Legislator?


My comments:

The Indiana Airport Authority has (in my opinion)illegally posted the new airport terminal at the Indy airport no firearms. As you are aware, Indiana State Law allows the licensed carry of handguns in the UNSECURED areas of airports but the "Airport Police" are claiming permission must be obtained from their executive director. Besides the licensed persons who carry for their own protection, many people legally travel with unloaded handguns in checked baggage. They have ignored my communications for clarification, but to others they have quoted their own rules. As you well know, the people who have taken the time to obtain a license and background checks are not the ones who are a danger to others, and the ones who carry illegally will ignore the signs and laws in any case. This cannot be allowed to stand even one more day. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.... Ralph

 

[AFA1CY]

So the real question is, Is the Airport authority an actual municipal agency which can indeed ban firearms on it's own property? Do they have the legal authority to do what they apparently have already done but never enforced until now?

INDIANAPOLIS AIRPORT AUTHORITY
Established as a municipal corporation by the General Assembly in 1962, the Indianapolis Airport Authority (IAA) owns, develops, and operates six airports in the Indianapolis metropolitan area. They include Indianapolis International Airport, Metropolitan Airport, Mt. Comfort Airport, Eagle Creek Airpark, Hendricks County Airport–Gordon Graham Field, and the Downtown Heliport.

The IAA is governed by a board of eight voting members appointed by the mayor of Indianapolis and officials from Marion and Hendricks counties. The board also has three non-voting members representing Hamilton, Hancock and Morgan counties.

2008 MEETING SCHEDULE
The IAA Board of Directors meets twice monthly at 8:30 a.m. in the Board Room on the second floor of the terminal. Meeting dates are subject to change. The schedule through the end of the year is:

— September 5, September 19
— October 3, October 17
— November 21
— December 5, December 19

 

[Drail]

While perusing the contents of Indiana Code 8-22-2-5 I came across this; Powers of the Board " 3) To make rules and regulations, CONSISTENT WITH LAW for the management and control of its airports and landing fields, air navigation facilities and other property under its control." I am not a lawyer but the phrase "consistent with law" seems to indicate they do not have the power to supercede State laws. What's your take on this?

 

[AFA1CY]

True, and state the law provides That cities can ban firearms on their property.

 

[rhino]

So why was this never an issue at the "old" airport?

 

[alfahornet]

I would strongly advise that you also check carefully any laws in any cities or towns that you will pass through on your flight. People have been pulled out of airports and arrested and jailed simply because they were unaware. At least two individuals transferred through NYC with declared weapons (TSA and FAA approved) and spent time in their jail. Be very very careful. I still don't understand how we are supposed to walk into OUR airport and declare a weapon for travel with Airport Ordinance 1-1986 Section 2.13 in effect.

Thank you for everyone responding to my question about declaring a firearm in Indy now. Now, you're saying that if you fly through NYC or Chicago and have a handgun in CHECKED luggage and declared and continue your flight to a destination where you are legally allowed to possess the firearm, you can actually get arrested at the airport you pass thru. Now I guess I am not surprised anymore but considering you're just passing thru and have no access to your luggage this is interesting. Thank you for the warning.

So, following the more recent discussion, the gun ban in the airport now sounds to have a basis 'under city property'. Now I am still confused how that affects declaring and checking a firearm. Are you protected by a federal law, TSA guideline for that as long as it is locked in a box. Thanks.

 

[Drail]

Yes we're confused too and I think that's how they want it. I got an email response from the Airport Authority today that essentially said only law enforcement may carry in the airport. They said you would "probably" be OK if you carried it into the terminal already packed in your luggage but you could not wear it in and then place it in your luggage. WTF? I'm starting to think that maybe they know they can't do this but they're hoping we'll play along with their rules. If I could afford an attorney to look at this I would. TSA now thinks that they set all the rules and the Airport Authority thinks they're in charge without regard to State law. For a good look at the stupidity of all this read about the Atlanta airport authority and the TSA claiming that this is a matter of national security. I am starting to really miss the Constitution we used to have. As far as why this was not an issue at the old terminal it was either not on their books then or they didn't enforce. I know the police at the old terminal were OK with licensed CCW. But then at the old airport you could actually stand in the parking lot 100 yards from the building and SMOKE A CIGARETTE. Not any more. Jet aircraft billowing smoke and diesel buses packed together idling right outside the doors and they're all worried about the effect my cigarette is going to have when I'm half a mile away. LOL Sorry for the ranting.

 

[Hoosier8]

Thank you for everyone responding to my question about declaring a firearm in Indy now. Now, you're saying that if you fly through NYC or Chicago and have a handgun in CHECKED luggage and declared and continue your flight to a destination where you are legally allowed to possess the firearm, you can actually get arrested at the airport you pass thru. Now I guess I am not surprised anymore but considering you're just passing thru and have no access to your luggage this is interesting. Thank you for the warning.

So, following the more recent discussion, the gun ban in the airport now sounds to have a basis 'under city property'. Now I am still confused how that affects declaring and checking a firearm. Are you protected by a federal law, TSA guideline for that as long as it is locked in a box. Thanks.

I read somewhere that there was a case in NYC where the gun owner flew in with a checked weapon and was arrested. His destination was another state and the outcome of the case was that he could do that as long as his destination was not NY due to the Federal laws. Same with Illinois, you can travel through with it in your car, unloaded, secured, and out of reach, as long as your destination is not in Illinois. I will see if I can find that case.

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/09/ny_case_against.php

 

[ryanmercer]

Yes we're confused too and I think that's how they want it. I got an email response from the Airport Authority today that essentially said only law enforcement may carry in the airport. They said you would "probably" be OK if you carried it into the terminal already packed in your luggage but you could not wear it in and then place it in your luggage. WTF? I'm starting to think that maybe they know they can't do this but they're hoping we'll play along with their rules. If I could afford an attorney to look at this I would. TSA now thinks that they set all the rules and the Airport Authority thinks they're in charge without regard to State law. For a good look at the stupidity of all this read about the Atlanta airport authority and the TSA claiming that this is a matter of national security. I am starting to really miss the Constitution we used to have. As far as why this was not an issue at the old terminal it was either not on their books then or they didn't enforce. I know the police at the old terminal were OK with licensed CCW. But then at the old airport you could actually stand in the parking lot 100 yards from the building and SMOKE A CIGARETTE. Not any more. Jet aircraft billowing smoke and diesel buses packed together idling right outside the doors and they're all worried about the effect my cigarette is going to have when I'm half a mile away. LOL Sorry for the ranting.

They are worried about it becuase of the jet fuel. At our hub *fedex* there is ONE designated smoking area, as far away from jet fuel as possible, and because Indy happens to hate smoking.