National Ordnance 1903A3

[Donutswithdom]

Hi All,

I recently acquired two rifles in exchange for some work. One is a 1903 Springfield with a serial number dating it around 1905.

The other, is a National Ordnance 1903A3. I did some web browsing but have only found mixed reviews on the latter.

Can anyone here provide me information on the safety of the receiver and durability of the weapon itself?

Thank You,

Jacob

 

[Devilpig]

The national ordnance weapons were supposedly made with surplus parts using a cast receiver. They can be shot, but I'd recommend using garand safe ammunition (no hot modern loads). Get go/no gauges and check for headspace, as long it appropriately chambers on the go gauge and does not chamber the no go gauge it should be fine as long as there's no obvious other issues.

 

[Fordtough25]

I believe the serial numbers 800,000 and below on springfields are the unsafe to shoot rifles.

Maybe have one to walk hang and one to shoot?

 

[indyjohn]

The national ordnance weapons were supposedly made with surplus parts using a cast receiver. They can be shot, but I'd recommend using garand safe ammunition (no hot modern loads). Get go/no gauges and check for headspace, as long it appropriately chambers on the go gauge and does not chamber the no go gauge it should be fine as long as there's no obvious other issues.

Pics please. Lots of pics.

 

[Andy NWI]

I've been told by many people to not shoot the national ordinance rifles. Your mileage may vary

 

[Ross Rifle]

Both receivers, in my opinion, are suspect. The early 1903 may be brittle due to the somewhat crude means of early heat treatment, though if it was the 118 years since manufacture should have proofed it out. As long as you stick to M2 ball or equivalent you should be fine. The real danger lies in the National Ordnance. Their receivers - along with receivers marked Santa Fe and Fed Ord - are known to be dead soft. Good, high number 1903 and 1903A3 receivers measure around 35C Rockwell, while I have had a National Ordnance tested and it failed to make the C scale! Not to mention that they are through soft. Your locking recesses will set back! I have had it happen, and my experience most of their rifles are only marginally within headspace to begin with. Couple that with the 1903's conical breech face, which leaves a substantial amount of unsupported case, and you have a recipe for case head separations! With spicy (150 grain JSP on 43 grains of IMR 4198) handloads I saw headspace grow to an unacceptable level within the first 20 rounds! If firing M2 ball or other low pressure ammo I would expect much greater longevity out of the action, but would still be dubious of firing. In the past my fix for these cast receivers has been to replace them with EARLY drill rifle receivers, with no weld on the front ring. Later drill receivers may have suffered degradation to the heat treatment at the front receiver ring, where the bolt locks up and need to be scrutinized. Hope this bit of knowledge and experience keeps folks safe.

 

[Mongo59]

It sounds like you have more work to do before you have a rifle that is a shooter.

For one, a 1905 could possibly still be chambered in .30-'03 instead of .30-'06. Most were converted to '06 but not knowing the guns history, then who knows? The only survivor of the .30-'03 is the .270 which is just a necked down .30cal. What date is on the muzzle end of the barrel? A .30-'06 will chamber in a 30-'03 but not the other way around.

They both have a "coolness" factor as wall hangers which is where most people would just leave them...

 

[BrettonJudy7]

Just now finding this thread. I have a National Ordnance 03A3 that I've had for about 10 years now. I've probably put 100 rounds through it total. With all modern loads. I wasn't aware that there were any known issues with the recievers until reading this thread. I'm glad that I haven't put any more rounds through it recently with this knowledge.

The only issue I've had is that the plate of the magazine housing has come loose and won't stay latched when firing. I'll fire off one round, the bottom drops put and all the bullets and spring fall out...

Mine does have a Remington barrel dated June 1944. At least I assume it's Remington? I'm not up on my markings...

Attaching pics that I took recently.

 

[jcj54]

Just now finding this thread. I have a National Ordnance 03A3 that I've had for about 10 years now. I've probably put 100 rounds through it total. With all modern loads. I wasn't aware that there were any known issues with the recievers until reading this thread. I'm glad that I haven't put any more rounds through it recently with this knowledge.

The only issue I've had is that the plate of the magazine housing has come loose and won't stay latched when firing. I'll fire off one round, the bottom drops put and all the bullets and spring fall out...

Mine does have a Remington barrel dated June 1944. At least I assume it's Remington? I'm not up on my markings...

Attaching pics that I took recently.

Your barrel is indeed a Remington 1944 production barrel.

 

[jcj54]

National Ordnance receivers are often soft. They are made without clip slots for stripper clips and the action screws are 1/4-28 rather than the normal 1/4-25 the Springfield, Rock Island, and Remington rifles use.
I would not shoot the National Ordnance, if the Springfield has a WW2 dated replacement barrel it may be ok with Garand safe M2 ball loads, but heavy loads or weak brass could cause failure.

 

[BrettonJudy7]

National Ordnance receivers are often soft. They are made without clip slots for stripper clips and the action screws are 1/4-28 rather than the normal 1/4-25 the Springfield, Rock Island, and Remington rifles use.
I would not shoot the National Ordnance, if the Springfield has a WW2 dated replacement barrel it may be ok with Garand safe M2 ball loads, but heavy loads or weak brass could cause failure.

That is interesting that you mention the slots for stripper clips, because I could never properly load this with stripper clips. I always just thought that I was bad at it... but now that makes so much sense. I feel dumb now...

 

[rhslover]

Natl ordnance made trash. I had one of the M1 Carbines. I sold it, I should have thrown it away. If the 1903 is as bad, no way I'd pull that trigger. As far as the early 1903, I'd keep that as an antique, maybe cook up some really light loads for it.

 

[Michigan Slim]

Source another receiver and build a shootable rifle.

 

[Mongo59]

Some of the very early '03 receivers were brittle but here is the kicker, if they were able to get the barrel out of the receiver without it breaking then it is good to go in my eyes.

As far as age goes, my Dr buddy has my '03 from 1918 that was sporterized and still uses it every year with the heavy Hornady Whitetail and we ain't skeered none.