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  • Bassat

    I shoot Canon, too!
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Dec 30, 2022
    733
    93
    Osceola, Indiana 46561
    Let me upset the apple cart, just a tad. As others have mentioned, there is quite a difference between 'Minuteman' and 'militia'. Militia is essentially an armed citizenry ready to show up for local defensive operations. The militia could be expected to be proficient with THEIR arms, and to supply sufficient ammuntion for a short-lived encounter. The militia could be expected to have little to no formal military training. Organizing a militia for a combined arms, or extended, operation would be an exercise in futility, at best. The ill-equipped and ill-trained militia is not a military force. It is severely limited in its ability to function by its very nature. The shop owners who formed an armed resistance in LA during the 1992 riots were a militia. They were on the whole - ineffective. The 7th Infantry and 1st Marine Division provided sufficient force to stabilize (term used loosely) the situation. Most replies in this thread refer to armaments for the militia. An armed force that is equipped only with a weapon, no matter which one, is almost guaranteed to fail.

    This is where the Minuteman concept comes in. A Minuteman was expected to be ready at a minutes notice to engage a well armed and well organized enemy. In addition to arms and ammo, the Minuteman MUST have a modicum of infantry training, all necessary gear to survive in the expected environment, and the tactical and command knowledge to follow instructions in a chaotic, fluid situation. At bare minimum, we are talking about something like the US Army Reserve. The proper primary weapon for this force of Minutemen is debatable. What it really needs to be is standardized. This force will be resupplied (food, gear, munitions, replacements) from some central authority. That central authority simply cannot supply thousands of different combatants with hundreds of different replacement parts and munitions.

    I posit that the proper weapon for a militia it whatever the funk they can show up with. Bolt action .22LR. 700 Nitro Express. .375 H&H magnum. Whatever. Bring whatever you have, the skills to use it, and enough ammo to hold steady until the Minutemen can show up. An unsupported militia is almost certainly doomed to fail in a national emergency.

    To complement this rag-tag militia, a well organized and equipped force of Minutemen is needed. No offense intended, but a bunch of INGO members who show up at the fight with their own weapons and ammo are a militia. Some modicum of training, equipping, and standardization may be able to quickly turn them into an effective fighting force. How quickly that can happen is a huge unknown.

    The OP asks a self-contradictory question. "In the spirit of the Minuteman, what should we arm ourselves with?" Arming yourselves makes you a militia. If you really want to go back to the spirit of the minuteman, require EVERY able-bodied American citizen to spend two years in one of the United States Armed Forces. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard. Pick one. Not an option, YOU will SERVE. The other half on Minuteman is to be ready to fight at a moment's notice. This would require a well-trained, well-equipped, well-armed citizenry. Most state governments and most certainly the LIBTARDS in charge in WDC would never tolerate such a thing.
     
    Last edited:

    HighOnLife

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 24, 2019
    2
    1
    ANDERSON
    View attachment 280569
    Papa Eugene already got you covered. Fixed 0-300 yard battle sight. 1-9 twist for the most common 55 and 62 grain ammunition. Light profile. Rifle gas and full power 20" barrel. About the only thing I'd change is swapping to a carbine buffer and collapsible stock for widest range of shooters.
    That looks like the first M16 I was issued. I qualified with open sights no optics. But with my sight being what it is today, about a 4X optic would suffice. An AR15 suppressed SBR. You need 7 mags. 1 in the well 6 in the vest. Load all subsonic rounds except 2 mags for those times when you need to punch a deeper hole. The 62 grain green tips are abundant and would do just fine.
     

    FNparabellum

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    38   0   0
    Aug 30, 2022
    1,549
    83
    Indianapolis
    OK, let's say that patriotism took hold with the masses (wishful thinking), and a rifle spec was created to fulfill the Minuteman criteria. This would be a rifle that every red-blooded American would own and would shoot until proficient. It would be the rifle that any of us would grab should the call to defend our country be required. This would be the 21st-century musket that we would carry on the spirit of Concord and Lexington.

    What should it be? What would INGO recommend every American arm themselves with should the call to arms come? Let's talk config, caliber, and quality. If the spirit of the Minuteman should be embraced, what should we have when the call to muster comes?
    Just a standard A2 like ar15 rifle. Nothing fancy. Itll have to be affordable so iron rear sight and A- frame front sight/gas block. Dpms, del-ton, Dimond back, Anderson, etc. If someone want to upgrade to have a better handguard or optics they can. Keep in mind youd want to rely on the ability to customize the rifle to fill the many roles that a modern minutman would need to have. Yet the parts are still interchangeable.
     

    LtScott14

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   1   0
    Apr 13, 2008
    1,528
    83
    Porter County
    AR15, many 30rd mags, web gear, Tac-style vest to carry, maybe hard plates. Bayonets don't work on many budget AR's due to lack of mounting lug not being on barrel. Kabar knives, or similar.
    Kevlar helmet/steel pot M1 style head gear. Painted or covered to reduce shine at night.
    All loose straps taped, maybe fabric wrapped rifle for noise(rattle free).
    Maybe a 1911A1, or Beretta 9mm/Glock 19, more mags/holster, sidearm carry.
     

    DadSmith

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Oct 21, 2018
    22,853
    113
    Ripley County
    Let me upset the apple cart, just a tad. As others have mentioned, there is quite a difference between 'Minuteman' and 'militia'. Militia is essentially an armed citizenry ready to show up for local defensive operations. The militia could be expected to be proficient with THEIR arms, and to supply sufficient ammuntion for a short-lived encounter. The militia could be expected to have little to no formal military training. Organizing a militia for a combined arms, or extended, operation would be an exercise in futility, at best. The ill-equipped and ill-trained militia is not a military force. It is severely limited in its ability to function by its very nature. The shop owners who formed an armed resistance in LA during the 1992 riots were a militia. They were on the whole - ineffective. The 7th Infantry and 1st Marine Division provided sufficient force to stabilize (term used loosely) the situation. Most replies in this thread refer to armaments for the militia. An armed force that is equipped only with a weapon, no matter which one, is almost guaranteed to fail.

    This is where the Minuteman concept comes in. A Minuteman was expected to be ready at a minutes notice to engage a well armed and well organized enemy. In addition to arms and ammo, the Minuteman MUST have a modicum of infantry training, all necessary gear to survive in the expected environment, and the tactical and command knowledge to follow instructions in a chaotic, fluid situation. At bare minimum, we are talking about something like the US Army Reserve. The proper primary weapon for this force of Minutemen is debatable. What it really needs to be is standardized. This force will be resupplied (food, gear, munitions, replacements) from some central authority. That central authority simply cannot supply thousands of different combatants with hundreds of different replacement parts and munitions.

    I posit that the proper weapon for a militia it whatever the funk they can show up with. Bolt action .22LR. 700 Nitro Express. .375 H&H magnum. Whatever. Bring whatever you have, the skills to use it, and enough ammo to hold steady until the Minutemen can show up. An unsupported militia is almost certainly doomed to fail in a national emergency.

    To complement this rag-tag militia, a well organized and equipped force of Minutemen is needed. No offense intended, but a bunch of INGO members who show up at the fight with their own weapons and ammo are a militia. Some modicum of training, equipping, and standardization may be able to quickly turn them into an effective fighting force. How quickly that can happen is a huge unknown.

    The OP asks a self-contradictory question. "In the spirit of the Minuteman, what should we arm ourselves with?" Arming yourselves makes you a militia. If you really want to go back to the spirit of the minuteman, require EVERY able-bodied American citizen to spend two years in one the United States Armed Forces. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard. Pick one. Not an option, YOU will SERVE. The other half on Minuteman is to be ready to fight at a moment's notice. This would require a well-trained, well-equipped, well-armed citizenry. Most state governments and most certainly the LIBTARDS in charge in WDC would never tolerate such a thing.
    Actually historically the Minutemen were the best and usually youngest of the militia.

    Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers. Typically 25 years of age or younger, they were chosen for their enthusiasm, reliability, and physical strength.
     

    Mongo59

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jul 30, 2018
    4,481
    113
    Purgatory
    If they are shooting at you with 5.56 at greater than 500y all you would need for body armor would be some screen out of the screen door. The metal, not the nylon stuff, just incase there is a follow up shot...

    Personally, I just want Joe to give me back my pig (M60 for all those nonmilitary types)
     

    88E30M50

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Dec 29, 2008
    22,788
    149
    Greenwood, IN
    I'm thinking that a good 'Patriot' rifle for someone who would answer the call if his/her community needed them should be reasonably light due to the average condition of Americans. It should be easy to shoot and with semi-regular training, should be good for hitting a man sized target at 300 yards.

    It should be a common caliber and utilize reasonably common parts and mags. The quality should be good enough to function reliably with some abuse.

    In my mind, that means an AR in 5.56 and a 1-6x or 1-8x LPVO of decent quality.
     

    daddyusmaximus

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 98.9%
    88   1   0
    Aug 21, 2013
    8,638
    113
    Remington
    One each, lightweight, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed, semi-automatic, shoulder fired rifle, caliber 5.56mm. (the AR pattern)
    Such weapon to be fitted with a red dot sight, BUIS, sling, and a weapon mounted light.
    Each minuteman should also have a generous supply of 30 round magazines, and beaucoup bullets. (M193 is fine)

    Specifics like barrel length, stock, muzzle device... bla, bla... user's choice.

    If you haven't got it already... you're way behind. Get moving.
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,869
    113
    Madison Co Indiana
    If they are shooting at you with 5.56 at greater than 500y all you would need for body armor would be some screen out of the screen door. The metal, not the nylon stuff, just incase there is a follow up shot...

    Personally, I just want Joe to give me back my pig (M60 for all those nonmilitary types)
    Don't kid yourself,
    The big misconception is that 5.56mm is ineffective at distance is incorrect my friend.
    The 5.56mm bullet does considerably more damage than a 7.62mm bullet within its design envelope. People rant about 7.62 being so effective but the only people who shoot it are snipers and machine gunners. The later employ multiple hits while the former have excellent shot placement. The soviets switched from the 7.62 x 39mm round to the 5.45mm round 30 YEARS AGO. What else needs to be said about the effectiveness of fragmenting bullets at short-range? Also, one can carry twice as much ammo, in either 62, 69 or 77 grain loadouts.
    All will do the job at 500.
     

    Gingerbeardman

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Mar 17, 2017
    651
    93
    Anderson
    I don't care what you bring as long as you're good with it and more importantly, not afraid to die fighting. I think a lot of folks buy the patches and talk the talk. I don't have formal training but I'll show up and if I'm the first to die well grab my gun and keep it hot. And, as long as it isn't moving too fast and is 300 yards or less I can probably hurt it. I just got back from walking Missionary Ridge outside Chattanooga. The dirt trenches are still visible in some places and I'm not gonna lie, I laid down on the ground and got chills thinking about how scary that must've been for those brave men. There still aren't many old growth trees up there, I think it all got knocked down with cannon fire.
     

    jwamplerusa

    High drag, low speed...
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Feb 21, 2018
    4,330
    113
    Boone County
    I don't care what you bring as long as you're good with it and more importantly, not afraid to die fighting. I think a lot of folks buy the patches and talk the talk. I don't have formal training but I'll show up and if I'm the first to die well grab my gun and keep it hot. And, as long as it isn't moving too fast and is 300 yards or less I can probably hurt it. I just got back from walking Missionary Ridge outside Chattanooga. The dirt trenches are still visible in some places and I'm not gonna lie, I laid down on the ground and got chills thinking about how scary that must've been for those brave men. There still aren't many old growth trees up there, I think it all got knocked down with cannon fire.
    Chattanooga and Gettysburg have the spirits of the Civil War in abundance. I swear you can feel the cold breath of our forefathers on your skin in those places.

    Walking little round top and the devil's den I absolutely had the shivers.
     

    Mgderf

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    43   0   0
    May 30, 2009
    18,062
    113
    Lafayette
    Don't kid yourself,
    The big misconception is that 5.56mm is ineffective at distance is incorrect my friend.
    The 5.56mm bullet does considerably more damage than a 7.62mm bullet within its design envelope. People rant about 7.62 being so effective but the only people who shoot it are snipers and machine gunners. The later employ multiple hits while the former have excellent shot placement. The soviets switched from the 7.62 x 39mm round to the 5.45mm round 30 YEARS AGO. What else needs to be said about the effectiveness of fragmenting bullets at short-range? Also, one can carry twice as much ammo, in either 62, 69 or 77 grain loadouts.
    All will do the job at 500.
    We had to qualify at 500 meters with the lowly 5.56
    If it were not going to be effective at that range they wouldn't have wasted the time and money to train us at those distances.
    I may not be able to hit a silhouette at 500 meters today without glass, but I used to be able to make those hits with open sights.

    Some folks are ineffectual at 100 yards...
     

    KJQ6945

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Aug 5, 2012
    37,562
    149
    Texas
    Like someone said earlier, everyone on here should have an AR, and a pile of mags by now.

    Or, a pile of ARs, and a dump truck full of mags, which would probably be better. :patriot:

    If I had to “report for duty”, I’m bringing a MK18, and MK12.
     
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