Manual safety on a handgun foils self defense shooting

[bingley]

Had one of those the other night. Bullets did nothing to the bad guy. Had similar dreams several different times.

You need silver bullets for werewolves. For vampires, firearms just don't work. Remember to carry a stake and hammer for backup.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

How is this NOT a training issue?

BTW - MOST modern pistols wont shoot out of battery... So it wont really matter if you are jambing a Glock "into contact" with your attacker, a beretta, or a 1911. None of them will fire if the slide is pushed back even a fraction of an inch.

If you are going to be doing things like that, its a revolver or nothing.

 

[kawtech87]

Some weapons are more complicated to deploy under stress than the 1911 or, for that matter, any modern firearm.. Imagine drawing a long sword as an attack comes down on you. If they could do it hundreds of years ago, we can, too.

Japanese call that Iaido Japanese Sword Arts FAQ

 

[SSGSAD]

To me, the lesson here is to be intimately familiar with any weapon you may have to use to defend your life. If you have a dedicated house gun then you better be just as familiar with it and spend as much time with it as you do your carry gun. I have read way too many people say their house gun never leaves the house and their carry gun never gets shot at the range. I don't understand it. Be familiar and know what will and won't work. I'm sure there will be a bum rush on this thread from the anti-safety crowd but I think the true lesson here is weapon familiarity. You shouldn't wait until a situation like this to discover whether you picked the right gun for you to defend yourself with.

HERE is THE WINNER !!!!!

I have owned and carried a S&W Mod. 59, since 1979, the safety, is on the slide..... PITA, but I PRACTICE, and then PRACTICE some more !!!!!

 

[NHT3]

Training IS the key and sadly, most people don't train enough and some feel they don't need to train at all. My suggestion for students using semi-autos is to get an M&P with the safety if they MUST have an active safety but train until they are comfortable to carry the pistol without the safety engaged. As another poster related, adrenalin is a monster that is difficult to deal with, even if you train regularly. Finger out of the trigger guard until you are on target and ready to fire is the obvious answer but as simple as it sounds, under stress easier said than done.
It is so sad to hear about a situation like this and we can all only hope that if put in the same situation we will default to the level of our training and our training has been adequate. I really appreciate BehindblueIs bringing these real life situations to our attention so we can hopefully avoid being the next victim of this crazy world we are living in.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]Ruger MK III mechanic [FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT]Certified Glock armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] --[/FONT]1911 Mechanic

 

[IndyDave1776]

Quality practice is indeed the solution. I have had no reservations about safeties since the night almost 20 years ago when I woke up sitting upright in bed holding my 1911 with the safety disengaged, ready to go. It turned out that I had been awakened by the dog knocking over a piece of furniture, but quality practice brought me to a point of reaching awareness ready to go WITHOUT FIRING ON A SOUND/SHADOW/OTHER UNIDENTIFIED (NON)TARGET.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Ugh, that's a bad story. Glad to hear the victim survived. Hope the bad guy got put away.

I agree that 1911 safety is intuitive, while other guns may not be intuitive. If you shoot with a "high thumb" position, taking the safety off is a part of the grip on the 1911. If you train your draw stroke with the thumb safety in mind, you can draw & shoot pretty fast. The last time I timed myself with others, I, with a retention holster and a 1911, was marginally slower than someone with a non-retention holster and a Glock, but I think most of the extra time I needed was for the retention holster.

You also want an ambidextrous safety. There is no telling which hand might end up doing the shooting.

I have a gun with a hard-to-operate safety. I have to use both hands. That gun is my range toy, and I'd never carry it.

this is why I never will carry my dads p89. The "safety off" stroke is exactly opposite of my 1911. Then again, being a DA I probably wouldn't carry it with the safety on anyway.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BehindBlueI's, can you confirm the make of the pistol?

I don't know for sure. I asked someone familiar with the case today and they believe its a Beretta 9mm, but weren't sure on the model.

 

[sparkyfender]

H&K P2000 LEM FTW

P2000sk in 9mm here. LEM as well. That, and revolvers, get most of my carry time.

But I do love a Hi Power, and will occasionally carry it. It hasn't the easiest to use safety, I will admit.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I have an M&P9C with a safety (for marital reasons I will not go into here). I've trained with it and not had any issues. My other handguns do not have a safety.
While lending it to an INGOer, we found he had trouble with the safety flipping on during shooting because of his grip. He decided he liked the pistol, but definitely without a safety.
It got me wondering, even though I haven't had similar issues, what if it happened. I really need to train under stress with this thing to be sure.

 

[Hookeye]

Dude got darn lucky taking a gun to a fight and then screwing up.

 

[Birds Away]

For the record, I have both safety and decocker models. It is irrelevant as I don't use either device.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Yes - a training issue. Also a training-under-stress issue. They're different.

Also a GREAT lesson for having only similar carry guns.

Swap from a 1911 to a Beretta 92 or 96? Probably not gonna be good - unless you're sure you carry the Italian without the safety engaged.

Rotating between non-manual safetied guns - go for it. All point and click interfaces. Switch between a HP and a 1911? Go for it. Same general manual of arms (Though you'd need an aftermarket safety on the HP to make it analogous)

But rotating around a Glock, Beretta, 1911, A non M&P S&W auto, and maybe even a Ruger auto? Asking for trouble IMO. Keep things simple - keep them the SAME.

 

[dusterboy49]

I have a safety on my EDC, but I never use it.

 

[Ungie]

train under stress, then train some more. you need to know your gun inside and out. you need to learn how to shoot on the move and find cover when you can.

 

[zippy23]

everyone should own a glock

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

everyone should own a glock

If only so they can then sell / trade them for more comfortable guns like the M&P!

 

[88GT]

HERE is THE WINNER !!!!!

I have owned and carried a S&W Mod. 59, since 1979, the safety, is on the slide..... PITA, but I PRACTICE, and then PRACTICE some more !!!!!

How is being intimately familiar with any weapon I may have to use a winning idea?

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people who should know better continue to make blanket statements about what's "best," as if there is a universal standard and everybody fits it. It's bad enough people think I have to have a minimum level of training or only EDC firearms that are similar in function. Now I have to have intimate knowledge of all the possible weapons I might ever use for self defense?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

no need for intimate knowledge of ALL weapons you might ever use for SD. No one has insinuated that.

But intimate knowledge of the weapons you routinely rely on - then that's a different story.

Hubby carry a different style than you? Would probably be pertinent to learn that one, too. And him yours.

Also - his "here is the winner" statement was, most likely, referring to training and practice. Not that "his" weapon system was the "winner".

-J-

 

[Hookeye]

I run a 1911, when the gun is coming up the safety is off.
Been that way since I was a kid.
That's why I carry one

Some folks like repeatability, some folks are more aware of themselves and any extensions, some folks think differently.

So..............IMHO a manual safety is of no issue. How such a design interacts with some people......is. People problem, not a gun problem.