Mandatory Gun Training?

[actaeon277]

MILLER: Washington?s unsafe, gun safety class - Washington Times

Here's a great example of "approved" classes.
The police give you an outdated list.

 

[actaeon277]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ndment/174556-d-c-reporter-tries-buy-gun.html

Maybe we should just make it this hard. To make people feel better.

 

[Ggreen]

Maybe we should let people manage themselves and stop trying to force our own personal beliefs, ethics and bs down or neighbors throat. Government should be a loose agreement between neighbors to defend our collective freedoms from those who intend to infringe upon that freedom. Plus most firearms instructors are hacks, not all, but most that I've come across.

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I read all eleven or so pages of this post and found it very interesting but devoid of any real solution. My take away from these posts are; leave it alone it will sort itself out and it is my god given right to carry. Both good points by the way.

I advocate training to anyone that asks me, I encourage anyone that asks me, that they should train with their gun as often as they can. Should it be mandatory? No!! not at all but what can we, a community of responsible gun owners, do to help those that don't know any better? Can we reach out to the countless TV, movies, and YouTube videos that show prospective or current gun owners poor gun handling? Can we influence a generation raised on Call of Duty? Can we have more proactive range officers or ranges that support a strict code of safety? Maybe the only real solution is that we each do our part to help those we run across.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

As many already know, I tracked UDs causing injury or death in my county for one calendar year. We had over 80 incidents.

So here's the problem with mandatory training from a pragmatic standpoint. It's not going to prevent many of those incidents. Some of those people were veterans or trained security guards. At least one had attended Point Blank's introduction to handgun class the morning before shooting himself in the hand. They were trained, but goofed up anyway.

A few incidents were truly mechanical issues. A dropped antique revolver that wasn't drop safe, for example. Not much training does for that.

Then there's a slightly larger group of children finding unattended firearms. Those suck for everyone, but kids don't have a LTCH so wouldn't be getting the required training. You can argue that the training of the adults might prevent them from leaving the guns out and about...but somehow I doubt it after interviewing the parents. They are either borderline neglectful in other ways or they are people who believe stash guns are the pinnacle of home defense. When you hide an AR-15 behind a giant teddy bear in your toddler's room because home invasions...training isn't what you need. There are exceptions, but that's the norm when very small kids find guns. Teenagers are more...capable of getting guns that the parents did take precautions to secure.

Then there's the group that don't have a LTCH because they don't carry out of the house, they are felons, etc. Fairly large one, there.

So you'd essentially be creating a program with very little opportunity to effect the ones who need it most at the expense of everyone else.

If you really want to cut down on UDs causing injury or death, you'd eliminate 1/3 by mandating magazine disconnects. Not that I'm advocating for it, but that's the simplest and cheapest way to actually make an impact on the numbers.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[chipbennett]

As many already know, I tracked UDs causing injury or death in my county for one calendar year. We had over 80 incidents.

So here's the problem with mandatory training from a pragmatic standpoint. It's not going to prevent many of those incidents. Some of those people were veterans or trained security guards. At least one had attended Point Blank's introduction to handgun class the morning before shooting himself in the hand. They were trained, but goofed up anyway.

A few incidents were truly mechanical issues. A dropped antique revolver that wasn't drop safe, for example. Not much training does for that.

Then there's a slightly larger group of children finding unattended firearms. Those suck for everyone, but kids don't have a LTCH so wouldn't be getting the required training. You can argue that the training of the adults might prevent them from leaving the guns out and about...but somehow I doubt it after interviewing the parents. They are either borderline neglectful in other ways or they are people who believe stash guns are the pinnacle of home defense. When you hide an AR-15 behind a giant teddy bear in your toddler's room because home invasions...training isn't what you need. There are exceptions, but that's the norm when very small kids find guns. Teenagers are more...capable of getting guns that the parents did take precautions to secure.

Then there's the group that don't have a LTCH because they don't carry out of the house, they are felons, etc. Fairly large one, there.

So you'd essentially be creating a program with very little opportunity to effect the ones who need it most at the expense of everyone else.

If you really want to cut down on UDs causing injury or death, you'd eliminate 1/3 by mandating magazine disconnects. Not that I'm advocating for it, but that's the simplest and cheapest way to actually make an impact on the numbers.

/thread

 

[Hawkeye]

I still refuse to believe effectively applied training would not make a difference!
The range I frequently use has berms that makes me feel better.
Living in the southern part of the state I have not seen any crazy carry yet just lots of cheap holsters.

Bolded the main part of the statement. The problem is you have conceived a notion that training would make a difference. It might. but then you make a leap of faith that the training should be mandatory.

I dont think people are arguing with the training is good part. The argument is with your belief that it should be mandatory.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

Ohio requires mandatory weapons training before one can apply for a permit.

Obviously it [STRIKE]doesn't work[/STRIKE] depends on your instructor to drive home proper safety and training....

FIFY

 

[Joniki]

As many already know, I tracked UDs causing injury or death in my county for one calendar year. We had over 80 incidents.

So here's the problem with mandatory training from a pragmatic standpoint. It's not going to prevent many of those incidents. Some of those people were veterans or trained security guards. At least one had attended Point Blank's introduction to handgun class the morning before shooting himself in the hand. They were trained, but goofed up anyway.

A few incidents were truly mechanical issues. A dropped antique revolver that wasn't drop safe, for example. Not much training does for that.

Then there's a slightly larger group of children finding unattended firearms. Those suck for everyone, but kids don't have a LTCH so wouldn't be getting the required training. You can argue that the training of the adults might prevent them from leaving the guns out and about...but somehow I doubt it after interviewing the parents. They are either borderline neglectful in other ways or they are people who believe stash guns are the pinnacle of home defense. When you hide an AR-15 behind a giant teddy bear in your toddler's room because home invasions...training isn't what you need. There are exceptions, but that's the norm when very small kids find guns. Teenagers are more...capable of getting guns that the parents did take precautions to secure.

Then there's the group that don't have a LTCH because they don't carry out of the house, they are felons, etc. Fairly large one, there.

So you'd essentially be creating a program with very little opportunity to effect the ones who need it most at the expense of everyone else.

If you really want to cut down on UDs causing injury or death, you'd eliminate 1/3 by mandating magazine disconnects. Not that I'm advocating for it, but that's the simplest and cheapest way to actually make an impact on the numbers.

Great post!

Magazine disconnects have stopped working on most every semi auto I have ever bought.

If you can count to four, or even three, the disconnect isn't needed.

 

[Brad69]

Why can't the we have class 3 weapons ?
Without the red tape?

 

[Hawkeye]

Why can't the we have class 3 weapons ?
Without the red tape?

Irrational fear leading to a legislated restriction?

 

[HoughMade]

Why can't the we have class 3 weapons ?
Without the red tape?

Al Capone?

 

[rvb]

Al Capone?

I would have pulled that thread a little farther to get to root cause.... prohibition (aka govt trying to fix damage caused by govt interference).

-rvb

 

[gglass]

By law, every driver on the road today has had to go though classroom and hands-on training to receiver their driver's licence, but I still see "careless", "reckless" drivers on the road every single day that need to be taken out to the woodshed and whipped.

With this in mind, tell me again how infringing on everyone's 2nd Amendment "RIGHT" (making it no longer a "RIGHT") is going to ensure that gun owners never do careless and reckless stuff?

 

[JAL]

As many already know, I tracked UDs causing injury or death in my county for one calendar year. We had over 80 incidents.

So here's the problem with mandatory training from a pragmatic standpoint. It's not going to prevent many of those incidents. Some of those people were veterans or trained security guards. At least one had attended Point Blank's introduction to handgun class the morning before shooting himself in the hand. They were trained, but goofed up anyway.

A few incidents were truly mechanical issues. A dropped antique revolver that wasn't drop safe, for example. Not much training does for that.

Then there's a slightly larger group of children finding unattended firearms. Those suck for everyone, but kids don't have a LTCH so wouldn't be getting the required training. You can argue that the training of the adults might prevent them from leaving the guns out and about...but somehow I doubt it after interviewing the parents. They are either borderline neglectful in other ways or they are people who believe stash guns are the pinnacle of home defense. When you hide an AR-15 behind a giant teddy bear in your toddler's room because home invasions...training isn't what you need. There are exceptions, but that's the norm when very small kids find guns. Teenagers are more...capable of getting guns that the parents did take precautions to secure.

Then there's the group that don't have a LTCH because they don't carry out of the house, they are felons, etc. Fairly large one, there.

So you'd essentially be creating a program with very little opportunity to effect the ones who need it most at the expense of everyone else.

If you really want to cut down on UDs causing injury or death, you'd eliminate 1/3 by mandating magazine disconnects. Not that I'm advocating for it, but that's the simplest and cheapest way to actually make an impact on the numbers.

First thought through my mind is all the LEOs, for all their firearms training, that have shot themselves, or much worse others, with NDs. As to military veterans, the amount of firearms training varies wildly with their Occupational Specialty. Some guy who's turning wrenches on busted trucks or airplanes, or hauling bullets and beans in a tractor-trailer rig, isn't going to get much firearms training, nor is the cook fixin' the beans or the supply dude handin' out the bullets. I don't believe very many in the US Navy get much either. Most US Army MOSs in my era only gave enough small arms training during BCT (Basic Combat Training) to qualify with a M16A1 rifle. It isn't much training and range time is very rigidly lock-step regimented for efficiency in handling hundreds of trainees, and to prevent NDs in the process.

The training would be perceived by all too many as yet one more Royal PITA hurdle to clear for their LTCH with the instructors sounding to them like the adults do in a Charlie Brown TV movie. If there's a test, expect all manner of on-line cheat sheets to show up with the question pool and correct answers with Quora filled to the brim with people asking where the cheat sheets are.

Jaded? Cynical? Yup, you betcha.

John

 

[Robert Richardson]

Sometimes. one must become a teacher to the uneducated on gun safety but, sometimes it is easier to just set back and post about it.

 

[actaeon277]

Sometimes. one must become a teacher to the uneducated on gun safety but, sometimes it is easier to just set back and post about it.

Why not do both?

 

[bwframe]

Coach has a couple of spots left for Aug 2nd:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/439559-gun-handling-101-august-2-a.html

 

[walt o]

Yea we the government should start a program to teach safe gun practices to all , this includes the inner city youth's the illegal gang members and the jihadist. So that everyone knows how to safely handle a weapon. That would bring down the accidental shootings, would it not The above mentioned groups would know not to shoot into a crowd and hitting innocent victims ,if they had better training they would not waist ammunition and hit people they did not want to shoot . what a shame we don't have better training before we buy a gun isn't it