Majority Of Americans Say College Not Worth Cost…

[Leo]

Two areas of work that dried up while I was in High School. Industrial draftsman where CAD CAM replaced hundreds of men. I liked drafting. Also, Radio / TV repairman, that were replaced by throw away asian devices.

I thought a Radio / TV shop would be a pretty nice small business, I was even pretty good at it.

None of us ever had a chance to live in Mayberry.

 

[HoosierLife]

Certs are good and at this point more valuable than the paper from most colleges. The only downside is that they are the gospel according to the certification body. So a Microsoft certification is the truth according to Microsoft, not necessarily the truth of how something is in real life. Same with Cisco certs. I've seen cert questions from both where the answer doesn't reflect actual reality. So if you keep that in mind they are somewhat valuable.

I know this, certs and licenses in the insurance world are a complete waste of time.

None of it is actually useful for selling insurance.

I also know many agents that have admins or VAs that take their yearly certs and bi-annual license renewals for them

 

[actaeon277]

Chrysler adopted Degree'd only hiring for management. I was hired to work on an extremely automated machining installation that performed 240 machining processes, including air gauge quality inspection at three places in the process. The installation only required 3 production workers. In the old days it would have needed 240 operators and a dozen material handlers.

My direct supervisor was an 8th grade history teacher. Nice guy, but no technical skills, factory experience or management experience. The next department over was a woman that started college to be a grade school teacher but ended up with a communication degree. Nothing personal against her, but clueless about making gears and shafts. That was repeated dozens of times in dozens of departments.

The workers that really knew how each department made parts were the 20 plus year guys that started as helpers, and eventually worked their way up to run every process in the department. They became job setters who knew how to set up every machine on the line, making sure every operator could make good parts. To retain that knowledge base, Chrysler used to promote those guys to supervisor. With the mandate for degrees for all management, those top notch men had to go out the door for their promotion. Many positions got filled incompetence, but were showing a degree on the books. Somehow that was considered a good plan.

Sometimes a degree is not the answer.

For a while, the steel mill tried the 'hire only college grads'.
Then they found out, college grads mostly didn't want to shovel coal, or run an oxygen lance into a furnace.

 

[rhamersley]

For a while, the steel mill tried the 'hire only college grads'.
Then they found out, college grads mostly didn't want to shovel coal, or run an oxygen lance into a furnace.

Or be a swing shift foreman in Bethlehem's power station...ask me how I know.

 

[Nazgul]

We, my wife and I, might be an anomaly. We both have college degrees, I have a degree in History but was a mechanic for 40 years. I did do 3 years as an aide in High School after retiring so I sort of used it. Wife taught dual credit courses for 40 years. So she used her degree.
All of our kids went to college and they use them. Chemical Engineer from Rose Hulman, Computor degree from Purdue who is an IT person, RN from Louisville who works for a cancer drug company. All are married to either engineers or IT spouse. They use their degrees. They also make a lot more money than we ever did.

Not every one has to go to college , but there are many who do use it.

Don

 

[jamil]

I know this, certs and licenses in the insurance world are a complete waste of time.

None of it is actually useful for selling insurance.

I also know many agents that have admins or VAs that take their yearly certs and bi-annual license renewals for them

That's one problem with certs that would have to be addressed. With insurance, it sounds like certification is merely the cost of entrance into the club. Certifying entities need to actually "certify" the person has the knowledge and skill required for the thing. I've taken certification exams where you go to a testing facility, you have to show the required forms of ID.

The tests are administered on their equipment. no devices allowed. The exams are hard. Multiple choice multiple true answers. True answers are only subtley different from false answers. You either know it or you don't.

And I've found them to be indicative of competence. The people I've worked with who have the certs are usually solid.

 

[Ingomike]

Small business seems to agree that a degree is not worth it. (Of course not referring to STEM degrees.)

“A joint venture between RedBalloon.work and PublicSquare surveyed more than 70,000 small businesses about the future of economics for its annual Freedom Economy Index. Among the most consequential trends was a change in how businesses view college-educated students.”

“Specifically, 89% of respondents say college campuses no longer foster the debate and critical thinking needed to solve problems.”

“More than 83% of the businesses indicated they are either less likely to or see no difference in hiring job candidates with four-year degrees from major universities”

“Sixty-nine percent of respondents agreed that graduating college students don’t enter the workforce with the relevant skills that business and society require.”

“Lastly, 86% of businesses said they’d prefer a job candidate with four years of experience in the field over someone with a four-year college degree.”

The results are quite obvious: the value of a degree is diminishing.

The Value of A College Degree Is Rightfully Diminishing | Bobby Burack

Student loan debt in the United States totals more than $1.77 trillion. No institution in the country values free speech less than that of higher education. College universities ha

www.outkick.com

 

[firecadet613]

Small business seems to agree that a degree is not worth it. (Of course not referring to STEM degrees.)

“A joint venture between RedBalloon.work and PublicSquare surveyed more than 70,000 small businesses about the future of economics for its annual Freedom Economy Index. Among the most consequential trends was a change in how businesses view college-educated students.”

“Specifically, 89% of respondents say college campuses no longer foster the debate and critical thinking needed to solve problems.”

“More than 83% of the businesses indicated they are either less likely to or see no difference in hiring job candidates with four-year degrees from major universities”

“Sixty-nine percent of respondents agreed that graduating college students don’t enter the workforce with the relevant skills that business and society require.”

“Lastly, 86% of businesses said they’d prefer a job candidate with four years of experience in the field over someone with a four-year college degree.”

The results are quite obvious: the value of a degree is diminishing.

The Value of A College Degree Is Rightfully Diminishing | Bobby Burack

Student loan debt in the United States totals more than $1.77 trillion. No institution in the country values free speech less than that of higher education. College universities ha

www.outkick.com

Experience > degree has been my personal experience, along with my brothers.

He's a college dropout with extensive experience in his industry and earns 3-4x that of his wife, who has a Masters degree.

 

[jwamplerusa]

I find it stunning that the communists and their useful idiots have managed to pretty much destroy the value of many college degrees. In a roughly 25 to 30 year span the all out Sprint to wokeism and marxist ideology in our institutions of higher learning has simply devalued the product of the schools to near irrelevancy for many degrees.

Sad.

 

[spencer rifle]

When I hire people, experience is more important than a degree.

Our youngest never planned to attend college, which he informed us of while he was in high school. Got his precision machining/CNC while still in HS, but he doesn't use it - too busy living his best life now, doing sailing and environmental ed in the Chesapeake Bay or working at scout camp. But he still has over $50k in a 529 we saved for him over the years. Unless he goes back to trade school, he's considering taking the 10% penalty and using the money for something else, like a house (if he ever settles down).

 

[Win52C]

So, why is it not a ticket to a solid middle class existence anymore? Is it because productivity is down (it's not)? Is it outsourcing? Is it too big to fail? Is it stock buybacks? Is it the constant decline of wages and buying power? Is it foreign investors and hedge funds buying up market share? Is it the multitude of "once-in-a-lifetime" financial crises we've had now in the last 20 years?

No. It’s the multitude of virtually worthless degrees available that can only be justified by a career in acedemia.

 

[jamil]

Small business seems to agree that a degree is not worth it. (Of course not referring to STEM degrees.)

“A joint venture between RedBalloon.work and PublicSquare surveyed more than 70,000 small businesses about the future of economics for its annual Freedom Economy Index. Among the most consequential trends was a change in how businesses view college-educated students.”

“Specifically, 89% of respondents say college campuses no longer foster the debate and critical thinking needed to solve problems.”

“More than 83% of the businesses indicated they are either less likely to or see no difference in hiring job candidates with four-year degrees from major universities”

“Sixty-nine percent of respondents agreed that graduating college students don’t enter the workforce with the relevant skills that business and society require.”

“Lastly, 86% of businesses said they’d prefer a job candidate with four years of experience in the field over someone with a four-year college degree.”

The results are quite obvious: the value of a degree is diminishing.

The Value of A College Degree Is Rightfully Diminishing | Bobby Burack

Student loan debt in the United States totals more than $1.77 trillion. No institution in the country values free speech less than that of higher education. College universities ha

www.outkick.com

All a non-stem, or non-professional degree (Eg. Lawyer) shows is that you're trainable, and that you may have an above average chance of showing up for work regularly.

 

[Ingomike]

All a non-stem, or non-professional degree (Eg. Lawyer) shows is that you're trainable, and that you may have an above average chance of showing up for work regularly.

College gained favor with business when the use of intelligence tests was disallowed in Griggs v. Duke. The businesses farmed out to colleges, because they could do ACT and SAT testing, this is why some companies kept elevating the standards for jobs.

Now it is coming full circle…

 

[Leadeye]

College costs continued to go up simply because of demand. I remember the clamor for cost reductions in industry of the late 90s and early 2000s and wondering why that college price kept going up. The money certainly wasn't required to support the expenses.

Maybe with demand dropping that will change.

Talking to some folks who worked for a customer, one told me too many chiefs, not enough Indians. I remember seeing that business close.

 

[jbombelli]

Every place I've ever worked there have been people without degrees making the same pay scales as me.

If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't waste my time or money on a college education. I would do an apprenticeship and enter the trades.

 

[jbombelli]

College costs continued to go up simply because of demand. I remember the clamor for cost reductions in industry of the late 90s and early 2000s and wondering why that college price kept going up. The money certainly wasn't required to support the expenses.

Maybe with demand dropping that will change.

Demand isn't the only factor. You have to look at what drives that demand. You have to count in the government-guaranteed loans. When the government is footing the bill up front without regard to how expensive it is, and guaranteeing lenders will be paid no matter the cost, colleges can raise their tuition rates as much as they want. And then you have guidance counselors, college recruiters, and media driving demand by convincing as many kids as possible that, without that piece of paper, they'll be losers forever, unable to ever get a decent job, and it doesn't matter what field your degree is in, you simply need the degree, so study whatever you want. And gullible kids jump right in and take on huge debt before they even really hit the workforce. Debt that can't be discharged through bankruptcy.

This whole system is a scam, preying on gullible kids.

 

[Leo]

This whole system is a scam, preying on gullible kids.

They are preying on ignorance, that includes the parents.

Except for a few spoiled daughters of rich men, you could not sell worthless degrees to people who had to pay for them out of their own money up front.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Odd combination. There is areal doctor shortage in this country. There is little organic demand for gender studies grads.

While there is a real shortage of trained medical personnel; the costs/time for qualifying may outweigh the perceived rewards. As far back as the mid-80s, I knew a doctor who gave up her practice because of her med school debt load and the costs of malpractice insurance. I also knew a couple of doctors who gave up medicine for jobs in commercial aviation.

And, face it, jobs in the medical profession are just HARD; either they require a high degree of specialized education and training, or they're seemingly unending grunt work and not that attractive to most people.

OTOH, a gender studies grad who can actually find a job in the field can sit back and throw stink bombs at the rest of the world with very little effort and get paid for it.

 

[jamil]

I dunno. Maybe you’re underestimating the effort required to problematize everything normal.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

OTOH, a gender studies grad who can actually find a job in the field can sit back and throw stink bombs at the rest of the world with very little effort and get paid for it.

What field? Barrista at Starbucks? Flipping burgers at McDonald's? Seems like that's where the people with these worthless degrees end up, and then they end up bitchin' that they can't afford to pay off their ridiculous student loans.