It's Time for the FFL Background Checks to Go Away

[Cerberus]

Those poor convicted felons. it is a shame someone else got them in trouble.

And with each passing day, we are all tiny steps closer to being declared convicted felons.

Today's kids are getting records from minor silly stuff that everyone did just 20 years ago and got scolded by law officers. See where we are heading?

 

[KW730]

It is a VERY big deal to kill bald eagles, polar bears, rhinos, etc.

The killing of unborn children, however, is sanctioned by the same entity that wants to infringe upon your individual rights....for the safety of the children of course.

This is a gun owners forum, not a radical conservative forum. Please take your beliefs about such things somewhere else. If you want to engage the topic at hand I will be happy to respond.

So we are now elevating animals to the same "rights" level of humans? Mighty long leap to try and prove a point, so long you start sounding like the groups that wish to disarm everyone.

Sorry, animals right fall far after the most tiny of human rights.

Understandable, but anyone who knows even the basics about ecosystems knows that when you lose a single species the entire thing falls apart and affects every other animal in that ecosystem. The killing of protected species is a major problem and needs to have significant penalties, otherwise humans will have an adverse reaction to the despise of those species that become extinct due to over taking.

 

[KW730]

And with each passing day, we are all tiny steps closer to being declared convicted felons.

Today's kids are getting records from minor silly stuff that everyone did just 20 years ago and got scolded by law officers. See where we are heading?

This is more and more true each day. New legislation is being proposed that will make us "gun nuts" felons overnight for doing nothing more than exercising our rights (god given, natural, whatever you believe). There is a thin line between regulation and freedom. We need to be sure that we are articulating our position intelligently and letting our representatives know that we will not stand for any further infringement upon our rights.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

This is a gun owners forum, not a radical conservative forum. Please take your beliefs about such things somewhere else. If you want to engage the topic at hand I will be happy to respond.

One man's 'radical conservative' post is another man's 'radical animal rights' agenda (which ironically could also be told to take it 'somewhere else.')

Good strategy though, attack the one making the post so the idea can (hopefully) be marginalized and you won't have to deal with the idea presented.

Wasn't the OP about background checks?

 

[Bunnykid68]

One man's 'radical conservative' post is another man's 'radical animal rights' agenda (which ironically could also be told to take it 'somewhere else.')

Good strategy though, attack the one making the post so the idea can (hopefully) be marginalized and you won't have to deal with the idea presented.

Wasn't the OP about background checks?

I thought it was about chickens

 

[Radar1503]

The FBI will always have hands on these things!

 

[KW730]

One man's 'radical conservative' post is another man's 'radical animal rights' agenda (which ironically could also be told to take it 'somewhere else.')

Good strategy though, attack the one making the post so the idea can (hopefully) be marginalized and you won't have to deal with the idea presented.

Wasn't the OP about background checks?

I knew I would get a response like this. The conversation meandered into felonies and whether it was an appropriate crime, I posed a question. Out of nowhere abortion is brought in and used to downplay destruction of species. It had absolutely nothing to do with the conversation that we were having.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

The system does work. It prevents criminals from attempting to purchase weapons because they know it isn't going to work and they just might bring some unwanted attention onto themselves if they try. The local BATFE has no shortage of work dealing with straw purchases. The criminals know they can't buy a gun legally so they seek alternative means.

The left can spin any angle into a need for more gun control. Eliminating background checks is not going to improve our position. It will make it much easier for criminals to get guns. Once that happens and gun crimes increase in frequency we will be in worse shape than we are now.

You seem to contradict your own statement. If the background system works, how do criminals purchase guns through "alternative means?" If background checks work at all, they prohibit new gun purchases, which I would guess isn't how most criminals obtain weapons because they don't follow the laws.

The background check system then only affects the law-abiding citizens and is a de facto attack on personal property.

We feel good that we are "doing something" but the actual benefit is negligible.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Very difficult to get a job if you have been in prison and carry that felony name tag with you for the rest of your life. We let them out just to start kicking them down immediately.

Most businesses I know won't hire a felon.

I've hired three felons, they didn't last long before they went back to their usual ways and quit.

 

[Joq867]

I've hired three felons, they didn't last long before they went back to their usual ways and quit.

Many of them say they want to change, but when it gets a little difficult, it's easier to fall back on bad habits. These guys don't change their lives, they hang around the same people as before and the same places, so they get in the same trouble.
They do deserve A chance, but that's it. Any more and we are just fooling ourselves.

 

[phylodog]

You seem to contradict your own statement. If the background system works, how do criminals purchase guns through "alternative means?" If background checks work at all, they prohibit new gun purchases, which I would guess isn't how most criminals obtain weapons because they don't follow the laws.

The background check system then only affects the law-abiding citizens and is a de facto attack on personal property.

We feel good that we are "doing something" but the actual benefit is negligible.

If the background check system weren't here, convicted felons could walk into a gun store and buy a new gun. The current system prevents that. We can argue for years about whether or not the system prevents criminals from even trying but it would be pointless as you cannot prove a negative. I use the frequent attempts at straw purchases to bolster my position that felons know they can't buy legally. If they didn't, they wouldn't try to get others to buy for them.

Whether we feel good about it is irrelevant. What it provides is a nice smoke & mirrors opportunity for us to feed the left and assure them steps are being taken to prevent gun violence. Criminals are going to get guns regardless of attempts to prevent it. They had no problems getting booze during prohibition nor cocaine and heroin since they've been outlawed. For whatever reason, the left can't seem to comprehend the logic that banning something does not eliminate it. They should be just as pacified being told that a flawed system already in place is as good as it can get.

I don't see where I've contradicted myself. I don't think the current system is perfect. I think eliminating it will make things worse for gun owners. I'm not arguing for increased scrutiny but I don't see a tactical advantage for arguing for less (at least not right now).

 

[indytiger]

It works? Really? What does it do? Keep .0001 percent of the people from being able to buy a gun from a dealer?

Sounds like you want real facts to matter.

Silly boy, we are talking about the government.



(I do agree with you, in case you missed the sarcasm)

 

[danielson]

OK, so, here are some facts...

IF background checks were stopped, there would be no need for criminals to obtain guns illegally, therefore, our argument of "only stolen guns are used in gun crimes" will be moot, and the left will have a real argument... Not to mention you will be rubbing elbows with thugs in your local gun shop, because they know their not gonna get checked.. ALSO, do you think YOUR local gunshop wants to sell a gun to a thug???

A prevailing theme Ive been seeing since this got brought up, is people trying to mention how a felony isnt as bad as it seems.. THAT has NOTHING to do with the primary argument here.. Two separate things.. If you think its too easy to get a felony, I get it. Sometimes I might agree with you. But that has nothing to do with the fact that "bad guys" shouldnt be able to buy reputable guns

 

[danielson]

case in point... I have had several friends pissed because they have repeat dui's and have been charged with a felony. All they ***** about is how it shouldnt be a felony, and they shouldnt be treated this way.. But when I ask them, was it them who got in the car and drove drunk, they have nothing productive to say.

You reap what you sow.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

I am amazed at the anti gun groups thought that background checks are going to stop criminals from obtaining guns.

Stop them? Im not sure anyone is trying to argue that it would stop criminals from getting guns at all. I think it certainly makes it more difficult.

Rather than just walking into gander mountain and plunking down your cash then walking out with a gun and as much ammo as you want. It makes a criminal either 1) steal the gun 2) buy it on the black market 3) find a straw man to complete the deal.

Just because criminals can get around a law, doesn't mean its totally ineffective. I mean people get away with murder, but it should still be illegal.

 

[danielson]

^^^^pretty much BAM!!!^^^^

 

[johnny45]

Stop them? Im not sure anyone is trying to argue that it would stop criminals from getting guns at all. I think it certainly makes it more difficult.

Rather than just walking into gander mountain and plunking down your cash then walking out with a gun and as much ammo as you want. It makes a criminal either 1) steal the gun 2) buy it on the black market 3) find a straw man to complete the deal.

Just because criminals can get around a law, doesn't mean its totally ineffective. I mean people get away with murder, but it should still be illegal.

Yep... let's infringe upon the individual rights of law abiding citizens AND incent theft of property and the black market!

 

[Darral27]

I do not mind the background checks. The problem is for me I get a hold put on me every time so I have to wait 3 business days. My only wish would be that they accept LTCH in lieu of background check. I have LTCH, Utah non resident, and hazmat endorsement on my DL. That is 3 background checks in my wallet and I still have to wait.

 

[KW730]

Yep... let's infringe upon the individual rights of law abiding citizens AND incent theft of property and the black market!

You absorb logic almost as well as some anti-gunners I know.

 

[KW730]

I do not mind the background checks. The problem is for me I get a hold put on me every time so I have to wait 3 business days. My only wish would be that they accept LTCH in lieu of background check. I have LTCH, Utah non resident, and hazmat endorsement on my DL. That is 3 background checks in my wallet and I still have to wait.

Get a UPIN and never be delayed again.