Is George Zimmerman Guilty of a Crime?

[level.eleven]

I'm just not sure.

You could answer the question I posed. The use of the word some is often invoked to exclude the speaker from the remainder of the passage.

 

[J_Wales]

.

 

[Phil502]

To me the one key missing fact is who initiated the physical contact that led to the shooting. I could care less if Zimmerman followed Martin, that is not illegal.

 

[Que]

You could answer the question I posed. The use of the word some is often invoked to exclude the speaker from the remainder of the passage.

Well, since you want to get into this. I said "some," because there are two sides to this entire discussion, asking those for their "opinions." There is the side that is for the Martin family who desire to see Zimmerman go to jail for the rest of his life, regardless what the evidence says. They was their own justice. One the other hand, there are those who desire to see Zimmerman go free, because of the law, but refuse to even entertain the fact that there may be evidence to prove he does harbor some liability in the boy's death. These are the "some." So, to answer your question, I am not among the "some," but are you? Based on your post above, I would say so.

I can care less what any persons opinion is about this case. The internet is a dangerous place. Among those that read forums like this are children and adults who are easily persuaded by popular opinion. I've not seen too many people willing to address this from both sides, whether positively or negatively; simple objectivity.

Now, I guess there will be some who will start rumors of impending riots. Who benefits form that? So, I will remain with those who you proclaim are mentally ill on this issue, because I believe anything else only adds to muddying the waters.

 

[Clay]

Im sorry Que....... could you be a little more obscure in your answer.

 

[Denny347]

Exactly. If someone tells you they don't have an opinion, they are either lying or mentally ill.

I honestly have no opinion. What would my opinion be based on...pure speculation? My very good friend/co-worker was turned into a demon for having to fight with a teen resister 2 years ago. People used their OPINIONS to convict him long before there was even any hearings. People's opinions are based on convenience and person prejudices. Everyone has one and they are worth about as much. I don't care if he did what he was accused of or not, let the Jury decide. Well, since I'm not lying...I must be:

 

[Ted]

....I could care less if Zimmerman followed Martin, that is not illegal.

True. Though it may be an element to a crime.

 

[Ted]

Well, since you want to get into this. I said "some," because there are two sides to this entire discussion, asking those for their "opinions." There is the side that is for the Martin family who desire to see Zimmerman go to jail for the rest of his life, regardless what the evidence says. They was their own justice. One the other hand, there are those who desire to see Zimmerman go free, because of the law, but refuse to even entertain the fact that there may be evidence to prove he does harbor some liability in the boy's death. These are the "some." So, to answer your question, I am not among the "some," but are you? Based on your post above, I would say so.

I can care less what any persons opinion is about this case. The internet is a dangerous place. Among those that read forums like this are children and adults who are easily persuaded by popular opinion. I've not seen too many people willing to address this from both sides, whether positively or negatively; simple objectivity.

Now, I guess there will be some who will start rumors of impending riots. Who benefits form that? So, I will remain with those who you proclaim are mentally ill on this issue, because I believe anything else only adds to muddying the waters.

Opinions are plentiful, but informed opinion, be it objective or subjective, are not......

However, while the internet may be a 'dangerous place' for us to express our opinions, remember that the exchange of ideas are the expressed purpose of such a forum as this. Let us also not forget the newsworthy video posted here as well, of the NBP, or of some Congressman, or another figure that identifies himself as a 'Reverend', that bastardizes Zimmerman, but few posted videos that are newsworthy taking the opposite view.

As far as the opinion of a riotous atmosphere that explodes, it may or may not materialize. However, have there not already been threats of violence by a certain party, by the same group that promotes violence based upon race? To not prepare for such an event is foolish.

 

[level.eleven]

Well, since you want to get into this. I said "some," because there are two sides to this entire discussion, asking those for their "opinions." There is the side that is for the Martin family who desire to see Zimmerman go to jail for the rest of his life, regardless what the evidence says. They was their own justice. One the other hand, there are those who desire to see Zimmerman go free, because of the law, but refuse to even entertain the fact that there may be evidence to prove he does harbor some liability in the boy's death. These are the "some." So, to answer your question, I am not among the "some," but are you? Based on your post above, I would say so.

I can care less what any persons opinion is about this case. The internet is a dangerous place. Among those that read forums like this are children and adults who are easily persuaded by popular opinion. I've not seen too many people willing to address this from both sides, whether positively or negatively; simple objectivity.

Now, I guess there will be some who will start rumors of impending riots. Who benefits form that? So, I will remain with those who you proclaim are mentally ill on this issue, because I believe anything else only adds to muddying the waters.

Of course I amongst the some. As are you. You have formed an opinion based on the information that has been presented over the past month. This is just a fact of being human. It is biological. I don't know why people are so afraid to discuss the issue. Of course the trial will be the final arbiter and may change those opinions. It doesn't change the fact that you have one to begin with. I find the self righteousness and back patting grating at times. That is why asked about your use of the word some. Regarding your second paragraph about kids and such...pure gibberish. Opinion should be restricted because of how others may interpret or act on the discussion? For the record, I posted a breakdown of Florida's self defense laws from *gasp* a well know constitutional scholar in the other thread. You are right on one thing, no one wanted to talk about that particular post.

 

[armedindy]

buuurn him!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

 

[level.eleven]

I honestly have no opinion. What would my opinion be based on...pure speculation? My very good friend/co-worker was turned into a demon for having to fight with a teen resister 2 years ago. People used their OPINIONS to convict him long before there was even any hearings. People's opinions are based on convenience and person prejudices. Everyone has one and they are worth about as much. I don't care if he did what he was accused of or not, let the Jury decide. Well, since I'm not lying...I must be:

No, your opinion, of which you have, is formed based on the information that has been released to public up to this point. This case is being discussed worldwide around watercoolers, in board rooms, on message boards, and bridge clubs. It is okay to form a preliminary opinion and then adjust it based on new evidence. This scenario reminds of people saying they didn't have an opinion on OJ.

 

[Que]

Opinions are plentiful, but informed opinion, be it objective or subjective, are not......

However, while the internet may be a 'dangerous place' for us to express our opinions, remember that the exchange of ideas are the expressed purpose of such a forum as this. Let us also not forget the newsworthy video posted here as well, of the NBP, or of some Congressman, or another figure that identifies himself as a 'Reverend', that bastardizes Zimmerman, but few posted videos that are newsworthy taking the opposite view.

As far as the opinion of a riotous atmosphere that explodes, it may or may not materialize. However, have there not already been threats of violence by a certain party, by the same group that promotes violence based upon race? To not prepare for such an event is foolish.

This discussion would have been more than beneficial if there was any information brought forth that would help any of us prepare for such an occurrence, based on current law. I've not seen anything that discusses how a citizen of Indiana would defend him/herself if they chose to follow someone in their neighborhood. That would be a beneficial exchange of ideas and information. That is what I believed INGO and forums like this were for. However, I've seen nothing but finger-pointing and practically no discussion about the death of a boy and the possible conviction of an innocent man/conviction of a guilty man. All I see is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, O.J. Simpson, etc.

I am not in the camp that believes that I need to conduct myself badly based on what others have done. I can't understand why some videos were posted on INGO. I doubt they were posted because of their newsworthiness, so what do you believe was the true motive for posting them? Does anyone really fear the threats of the NBP? I mean, really fear them? I doubt there are many people on this board that are, so what do you believe is the real reason for posting their garbage?

 

[Ted]

This discussion would have been more than beneficial if there was any information brought forth that would help any of us prepare for such an occurrence, based on current law. I've not seen anything that discusses how a citizen of Indiana would defend him/herself if they chose to follow someone in their neighborhood. That would be a beneficial exchange of ideas and information. That is what I believed INGO and forums like this were for. However, I've seen nothing but finger-pointing and practically no discussion about the death of a boy and the possible conviction of an innocent man/conviction of a guilty man. All I see is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, O.J. Simpson, etc.

I guess that is why there are individuals such as yourself, that could have put us on track to such relevant discussions. I wish that I would have seen such posts sooner, as I would have interested in reading and participating.

I am not in the camp that believes that I need to conduct myself badly based on what others have done. I can't understand why some videos were posted on INGO. I doubt they were posted because of their newsworthiness, so what do you believe was the true motive for posting them? Does anyone really fear the threats of the NBP? I mean, really fear them? I doubt there are many people on this board that are, so what do you believe is the real reason for posting their garbage?

Opinion vary upon why anybody posts anything. If done for altruistic reason, or just to stir the pot, or because there are darker reasons....none of it really concerns me. The information is placed upon a thread, and I generally, but not always, accept it at face value.

I do fear the NBP, just as I fear any hate based group. You know who they are, and that they are capable of doing damn near anything, without a real fear of repercussions for their actions.

 

[hornadylnl]

I've tried having a "good shoot/bad shoot" type of a discussion in that was it a situation that Zimmerman should have gotten involved in. At least to the level that he did.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Sheesh...maybe I should start ANOTHER thread on this topic so every one can be the hell out of it

 

[Stschil]

How is this different than the discussion going on in the other thread?

There is nothing to "feel." That is why the other thread is crap. He is innocent until proven guilty.

Yep!

By feeding the media trolls, it will make it even harder for Zimmerman to recieve a fair trial.

The hype is there to stir up emotion and feed ego's. It's also a set up to fan the flames even more if he is found not guilty if and when it ever goes to trial.

 

[Que]

I guess that is why there are individuals such as yourself, that could have put us on track to such relevant discussions. I wish that I would have seen such posts sooner, as I would have interested in reading and participating.

Opinion vary upon why anybody posts anything. If done for altruistic reason, or just to stir the pot, or because there are darker reasons....none of it really concerns me. The information is placed upon a thread, and I generally, but not always, accept it at face value.

I do fear the NBP, just as I fear any hate based group. You know who they are, and that they are capable of doing damn near anything, without a real fear of repercussions for their actions.

Agreed. But, hate-based groups find the frightened to be their best members. From street gangs to organized crime, those who are looking for protection, familiarity, companionship, etc., will do anything to prove they belong.

I ask you not to fear the NBP, because if you do, then you may fear me because from appearance, I could fit their mold. Any hate-group, regardless of race, political ideology, or religious stance, should only be pitied or defeated when they rise to offend the innocent.

 

[Pocketman]

This discussion would have been more than beneficial if there was any information brought forth that would help any of us prepare for such an occurrence, based on current law. I've not seen anything that discusses how a citizen of Indiana would defend him/herself if they chose to follow someone in their neighborhood. That would be a beneficial exchange of ideas and information. That is what I believed INGO and forums like this were for. However, I've seen nothing but finger-pointing and practically no discussion about the death of a boy and the possible conviction of an innocent man/conviction of a guilty man. All I see is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, O.J. Simpson, etc.

I am not in the camp that believes that I need to conduct myself badly based on what others have done. I can't understand why some videos were posted on INGO. I doubt they were posted because of their newsworthiness, so what do you believe was the true motive for posting them? Does anyone really fear the threats of the NBP? I mean, really fear them? I doubt there are many people on this board that are, so what do you believe is the real reason for posting their garbage?

Que brings up a good point. This could be an opportunity for us to constructively discuss this situation from an Indiana / personal perspective. Some posts in the "mother of all threads" have been such, but many have been more about emotions and third parties who bring nothing constructive to the topic.

Poll numbers are about 2-1 those who need more evidence vs. those who think he's not guilty. I find the not guilty number a bit surprising given the primary source of information has been the "biased" MSM. They are what they are though and I'm confident based upon honest opinions.

I am almost sorry I posted this. Keeps the wounds open. A youth is dead and a young man's life forever altered. Who knows what else will result from this incident? Hopefully INGO will rise above the drama and illustrate responsible gun ownership to the rest of the world.

 

[Ted]

Agreed. But, hate-based groups find the frightened to be their best members. From street gangs to organized crime, those who are looking for protection, familiarity, companionship, etc., will do anything to prove they belong.

I ask you not to fear the NBP, because if you do, then you may fear me because from appearance, I could fit their mold. Any hate-group, regardless of race, political ideology, or religious stance, should only be pitied or defeated when they rise to offend the innocent.

Fear as a natural response from our evolution. Asking me to not fear the NBP, or the ANP, or WAB, or the KKK, or NoI, or the even the IRS, BATFE, FBI....etc.......given their history of tragic deeds to victimize those to whom they are opposed.....would seem rather naive.

 

[level.eleven]

Fear as a natural response from our evolution. Asking me to not fear the NBP, or the ANP, or WAB, or the KKK, or NoI, or the even the IRS, BATFE, FBI....etc.......given their history of tragic deeds to victimize those to whom they are opposed.....would seem rather naive.

It certainly is easy to say when the bounty isn't on your head. Absent fear, there would be no reason to leave the house with a gun...but that is a different discussion I suppose.

Okay, enough bickering. How about rephrasing the poll to address the murder 2 charge, which as I understand it, requires a depravity of mind. Does the narrative to this point support that charge? Interestingly, Matin's mother opinion is that the shooting was an accident per her statement yesterday.