If the federal government dissolved...

[Usmccookie]

Reading another thread I started wondering...

If the U.S. federal government crumbled and gave power back to the states. What would happen? Would we still be a nation, or a union based on alliances? Would states start fighting? would borders change? Would we be better off or worse off? How long would it take for things to settle and return to a new "normal"?

I personally think most Americans would be better off, but I don't have a clear argument as to why other than, smaller gov't =mo betta

 

[phylodog]

I vote yes but only for a short period of time. I don't think there would be disputes over borders or fighting (literal violence) between the states but who knows.

 

[Leo]

I am sure their would be fighting, and in short time. The states that have been subsidized year after year with federal taxpayer dollars will be in desperate circumstances pretty quick.

On the other hand, lack of being able to cry to the feds when your policies are in error, as seen in San Francisco for example, may force the State level leaders to act with a little more wisdom.

I would like to think the national security of a unified defense of our borders would be lost, but the people making slo mo joe dance have already destroyed that.

 

[jwamplerusa]

I voted yes, but there is a caveat. There would need to be a quick set of alliances between most of the states to retain the military and border control.

 

[jake blue]

I think states would form alliances with other states sharing either geographic regionality or ideology and preferably both. I wrote a short story about what a post-united America might look at using several factors to predict potential alliances. Presuming little ideological shifts, multiple smaller alliances would probably merge into two or three larger alliances and you'd basically end up with Red and Blue Americas such as we could anticipate based on any recent presidential election outcome map.

On a more nuanced level though, after the initial dissolution several things would probably occur that effect the outcome. As Leo pointed out, states that cannot balance their budget and overly rely on federal subsidies would be forced to reevaluate their entire state economy and as that pertains to interstate trade could likely impact key commodities significantly for all of us. Also, borders probably would begin to shift because there's a lot of bordering districts which would rather split from their state. Think E. Washington state, W. Pennsylvania, most of Illinois from Chicago, etc. Of course if that district is also rich economically or in resources the state will fight to keep it even if it doesn't conform to their ideology. And finally, again citing Leo, the reality of bad policies and no safety net would probably be the tonic necessary to cleanse those toxic districts of their progressivism.

 

[spencer rifle]

When we had a weak central government in the past (think Articles of Confederation and early Constitution times), we had numerous problems with international relationships (War of 1812, Barbary pirates, quasi-war with France, etc.). The stakes are much higher now - Russia, China, Iran, etc. We also had money issues - either not enough to meet international challenges, or locally-issued currency that was not accepted everywhere.

So I'm more supportive to cutting the feds back to their bare minimum than eliminating them. No idea how, though.

 

[patience0830]

Reading another thread I started wondering...

If the U.S. federal government crumbled and gave power back to the states. What would happen? Would we still be a nation, or a union based on alliances? Would states start fighting? would borders change? Would we be better off or worse off? How long would it take for things to settle and return to a new "normal"?

I personally think most Americans would be better off, but I don't have a clear argument as to why other than, smaller gov't =mo betta

It would all depend on whether commerce continued, uninterrupted, and what kind of whackos took the reins of power in each state.

 

[Twangbanger]

Ok, so who's first to step up and give up their Medicare and Social Security, when it's used to pay down _secured_ debts?

Dissolved means dissolved.

 

[flightsimmer]

No, the states should just forcefully restrict it back to the original limits of the Constitution. You might be able to do this by cutting off the federal funding and starve them out.
If everyone stopped sending in Federal tax money the Federal Government would be broke in short order, all they could do is print worthless money similar to what their doing now.

 

[spencer rifle]

No, the states should just forcefully restrict it back to the original limits of the Constitution. You might be able to do this by cutting off the federal funding and starve them out.
If everyone stopped sending in Federal tax money the Federal Government would be broke in short order, all they could do is print worthless money similar to what their doing now.

They are already broke and printing as fast as they can. We are likely at the point between the firing and the impact. That projectile won't stay in the air forever.

 

[Leadeye]

Leadership give up power without some sort of struggle? A rare thing indeed, but there is the example of Cincinnatus.

 

[flightsimmer]

The one thing I would be most concerned about is our ability to defend the country against foreign enemies while at the same time destroying domestic enemies.
They want to take away our self defence weapons because they don't have any except for hired guns and without money they cannot pay them.

 

[Ark]

God it would be amazing if the federal government just...went away.

It would be a wonderful ten minutes.

Because that's how long it would take some damn fools to build a new one.

 

[BigRed]

Not just yes, HELL YES.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

New threads on INGO:

1) Kentuckians swimming the river and taking our jobs
2) Why can't we buy oranges in December?
3) Anybody know how to learn Mandarin fast?
4) My car was stolen and taken to Illinois, but they won't extradite
5) Time to decentralize the government and give the power back to the counties?
6) Volunteers to give up SSI/Medicare/Veteran's Benefits (short thread)

 

[BigRed]

New threads on INGO:

1) Kentuckians swimming the river and taking our jobs
2) Why can't we buy oranges in December?
3) Anybody know how to learn Mandarin fast?
4) My car was stolen and taken to Illinois, but they won't extradite
5) Time to decentralize the government and give the power back to the counties?
6) Volunteers to give up SSI/Medicare/Veteran's Benefits (short thread)

Plain silly

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Plain silly

That's exactly what a secret Kentuckian looking to take hard working Hoosier's jobs would say.

 

[jake blue]

Ok, so who's first to step up and give up their Medicare and Social Security, when it's used to pay down _secured_ debts?

Dissolved means dissolved.

I've been planning my retirement on the presumption that SS will be bankrupt by the time I'm eligible or they'll keep raising the eligibility age just out of reach. And Medicare seems to me like it is just Obamacare for seniors even before there was Obamacare... Health insurance you're required to buy whether you want it or not because they need full buy-in to fund the increased expenses. That's the very definition of a Ponzi scheme!

 

[churchmouse]

Ok, so who's first to step up and give up their Medicare and Social Security, when it's used to pay down _secured_ debts?

Dissolved means dissolved.

Call it a Ponzi/pyramid scheme if you like but we (CKW and myself) have paid into this mess since we were 14 and went to work. For me that's 48 years. For CKW it is a bit less. After we lost most all of our Retirment savings in 08 SS and my retirement from the Plumbers/steamfitters has become the anchor in our existence. The Medicare is keeping both of us alive presently. They have dropped a cool $450K on me since June 21 and CKW's last cycle through the hospital system was north of $1Mill.

So, what would we do? Die, I guess.

I am for eliminating all the alphabet agencies and the bureaucracy's that make our lives miserable. Put this back to a republic. Ha, lots of luck.
Clean house and start from scratch with term limits in place for all elected officials. All of them except the freshmen and they get 1 more term/bite at the apple.
Eliminate the ungodly war chests these asshats keep maintaining office and stop the money men. The lobbyists.
God I could go on, but I guess I need to gird my loins for the fall out from this post.

 

[Route 45]