I just luv gubmint

[firecadet613]

Lots 'o complaining in this thread, yet no solutions to the property tax dilemma, or better yet, since we all KNOW it'll be an issue in retirement for many of us, what are you doing to prepare for it?

Man, I should have posted in the grammar thread. Talk about a run on sentence...

FWIW, I was the youngest guy in line at the Treasurers office by a good 25+ years when I paid my property taxes last week... none of those old guys seemed to me pitching a fit...

 

[phylodog]

Tough to predict and shelter yourself from an effective 25% pay cut over the past 3 years.

 

[bobzilla]

Tough to predict and shelter yourself from an effective 25% pay cut over the past 3 years.

Not really. You know these things are going to happen. You have to prepare for the worst.

 

[Ingomike]

No, I know who is buying.......a lot of them are my friends and customers buying. In fact my best buddy bought one of these tracts and paid $680,000 for it, he turned and sold it a few days later to the same farmer who had bought a couple of the other tracts. My buddy got nervous after he bought it and decided to sell it, he still made $30-40K in 3 days on it. If you look at the links I provided, then run the buyers names in beacon......you will see most of these buyers own 1,000's and 1,000's of acres of land. The one lady, who is a customer and friend of mine......she owns probably 20-25 farms in this area. She was the daughter of one of the largest farmers in our county, when her mom and dad passed........the non farming sisters inherited it all. They bought one sister out who wanted to cash out and the other 2 sisters have just been buying and never selling. They rent the farm land out to farmers.

I would be curious what the assessor says.

 

[bobzilla]

I don't think there are houses on the 3 tracts I posted links to. You can click map and see the tracts from satellite. Here is a link to the auction listing and tracts.....https://www.lawsonandco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/MEECE-RE-auction-booklet-2023.pdf

All together it brought in around $10,000,000, if I am not mistaken.

These farmers around here just walk in and smack down $1,000,000 in cash at auctions like it don't even matter. Old, old school money. Many generations of money and farms. The fella that owned all this land was a 100 year old man. His wife had died about 15-20 years ago. They had no kids. I use to do a lot of work for him and he still raised cattle and farmed up until his death. He started buying these farms in the 1950's for less than $100 an acre. He left it all to his brother and his church I believe. He also gave one farm and house to the tenant who rented from him. He was a good old man....I liked Truesdell.

On another note.....I agree with you, I don't know why they pay $15-20K an acre for farm land that has no chance or plans of ever being developed. I mean, I look at it like this. You buy 100 acres for $1.5M, you rent it out for $300 an acre (I have no idea what farm rent costs). So you take in $30,000 a year rent, you then pay say $3,000 property taxes, and I imagine there is income taxes on the $27,000 profit? Regardless....that is only what, 2% a year return on investment! I can take $1.5M and buy preferred shares in stock of RITM and make 8-10% ROI, or $150,000 a year. Seems silly to me to buy land......but what do I know. I mean CD's pay twice what they are making renting land. Now granted, they will collect that $30K, plus appreciation to rent and land forever. To me though, I would much rather put my money in a secured dividend of 8-10% a year instead of buying land that is going to pay me 1/4 the ROI every year. I must be missing something. I mean one way you recoup your $1.5M in 10 years, and that is assuming the stock never goes up......the land way takes 40-50 years, like you said, and who knows how much or which way farm land prices may fluctuate in the next 5 decades.

Bobzilla.......are you a farmer?

No I didn’t go that route. I grew up with it and live in the middle of it.

 

[Ingomike]

No, not at all. We all know any farm land is valued at $15K and up per acre, as farm land. I have been to many farm auctions the last year......and I have seen no land sell for under $15,000 per acre, and farmers is who buy it. So farm land does have value as farm land. We should tax it as such.

This may just answer your question. simply put the tax is based on land productivity.

“Farmland assessments start with a base rate per acre. The base rate is a statewide number calculated each year by the Indiana Department of Local Government Finance. The base rate for taxes this year is $1,500 per acre, up 16% from $1,290 last year. The DLGF just announced that the base rate for taxes next year will be $1,900, a 27% increase. The base rate is adjusted for soil productivity and sometimes factors that reduce yields, to set the assessed value for each acre.”

Larry DeBoer: Hoosier farmland property tax misery has company - Daily Journal

Farmland assessments for property taxes are going up. So are home, rental housing and business assessments. Property tax misery has a lot of company.

dailyjournal.net

https://www.in.gov/dlgf/files/200120-Wilkening-Presentation-Agricultural-Land-Assessments.pdf

 

[CHCRandy]

I would be curious what the assessor says.

Send her an email....or call her. Nicki is a nice lady. Her email is nlawson@co.hendricks.in.us

Just curious, what would you ask the assessor? Pretty much everything is available on Beacon.

 

[Ingomike]

Send her an email....or call her. Nicki is a nice lady. Her email is nlawson@co.hendricks.in.us

Just curious, what would you ask the assessor? Pretty much everything is available on Beacon.

I found the answer, it is not based on a pure sales value like residential or commercial, but rather productivity of the land, though it has a 2% max in the state constitution…

 

[firecadet613]

Tough to predict and shelter yourself from an effective 25% pay cut over the past 3 years.

I still have many working years left, and I've made more now more than ever.

 

[bobzilla]

I found the answer, it is not based on a pure sales value like residential or commercial, but rather productivity of the land, though it has a 2% max in the state constitution…

Yes. I already went through all of that.

 

[CHCRandy]

This may just answer your question. simply put the tax is based on land productivity.

“Farmland assessments start with a base rate per acre. The base rate is a statewide number calculated each year by the Indiana Department of Local Government Finance. The base rate for taxes this year is $1,500 per acre, up 16% from $1,290 last year. The DLGF just announced that the base rate for taxes next year will be $1,900, a 27% increase. The base rate is adjusted for soil productivity and sometimes factors that reduce yields, to set the assessed value for each acre.”

Well, It don't really answer the question I have, in fact that makes me have more questions. Why is farmland assessment based on productivity of land and soil, but my home is assessed based on value of what homes like mine sold for recently? Why do we not assess farmland based on what the neighbors farmland sold for? It seems all land and homes should be assessed the same way......that is all I am saying.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, It don't really answer the question I have, in fact that makes me have more questions. Why is farmland assessment based on productivity of land and soil, but my home is assessed based on value of what homes like mine sold for recently? Why do we not assess farmland based on what the neighbors farmland sold for? It seems all land and homes should be assessed the same way......that is all I am saying.

Maybe this will. This is set up to tax on agriculture only, not investment buyers like you described or its value as a wind farm or development.

“Use-value assessment (UVA) is the practice of valuing rural land based on its current use, rather than on its market value for property tax purposes, which may be substantially higher. This tax preference amounts to tens of billions of dollars annually and provides substantial property tax reductions for rural landowners in the United States. This form of preferential tax treatment was created in response to concerns about the loss of farms, ranches, and forestland resulting from the growth of metropolitan regions.”

https://www.lincolninst.edu/sites/default/files/pubfiles/use-value-assessment-of-rural-land-report-full.pdf

 

[phylodog]

I still have many working years left, and I've made more now more than ever.

That isn't the case for everyone.

If I were still at my old job I'd be making more than ever also. Just like most anyone in the country who has been employed for the past five years. A raise which barely keeps up with inflation isn't much of a raise. Just like someone telling me my house is worth 50% more than I paid for it five years ago, it isn't a positive thing.

When inflation is factored in things go flat or trend downward for many.

 

[Shadow01]

I went up and made my house payment (property taxes) to the county today. Of course even though the city took part of my property last year, my bill went up again this year. But of course, they say you are paying for last year, so wait for the bill next year to show the decrease. Anyone taking odds on that.

So I ask about taking my wife's name off the property. Oh, different department, so I go there. Well, for $25 and an original death certificate, they will have her name taken off the bill, but that won't change the property. For that, I need to hire a lawyer and have a new deed drawn up. You just have to love our government in action.

Remind them where to send the bill for her share of the property taxes.

my mother passed in January and the house has been in my name since 2007. She had a trust with lifetime survivor rights to live in the home. The county clerk says the death certificate is nice and all, but I need an affidavit proving her death to remove the trust conditions on the property so I can put it up for sale. Currently waiting on the lawyer to get the paperwork done so I can make a second trip to the clerk’s office.

 

[firecadet613]

That isn't the case for everyone.

If I were still at my old job I'd be making more than ever also. Just like most anyone in the country who has been employed for the past five years. A raise which barely keeps up with inflation isn't much of a raise. Just like someone telling me my house is worth 50% more than I paid for it five years ago, it isn't a positive thing.

When inflation is factored in things go flat or trend downward for many.

I should have been more specific, I've more than kept up with inflation...

And my original point was, if you're not yet retired and you know property taxes will likely be an issue for you, what are YOU doing to prepare for it? Moaning and complaining isn't a good plan...

 

[patience0830]

Negative.

The property owners pay taxes on the property they own. How they come up with the money to pay them is their business and no one gets credit for paying taxes by proxy. Nice try.

I've lived in apartments, never paid a dime in property taxes.

It's included in the rent. You didn't think the owner was gonna take the raise in taxes by himself, didja?

Of course you pay the taxes.
The owner is just your proxy.
And they gave him the responsibility to do the collecting.
Without a police force of his own.
Without the right to remove you immediately upon non-payment.
Made him do their dirty work and made the job harder b4 giving it to him.
Life ain't fair. Ain't gonna be any time soon.

 

[patience0830]

You probably also believe you have no responsibility for road damage by semi-trucks even though most everything you own and buy is transported by them…

Most road damage north of the Mason-Dixon is freeze and thaw. Trucks or no trucks, you get potholes..

 

[Ingomike]

Most road damage north of the Mason-Dixon is freeze and thaw. Trucks or no trucks, you get potholes..

Freeze thaw does not groove roads though…

 

[firecadet613]

 

[phylodog]

It's included in the rent. You didn't think the owner was gonna take the raise in taxes by himself, didja?

Of course you pay the taxes.
The owner is just your proxy.
And they gave him the responsibility to do the collecting.
Without a police force of his own.
Without the right to remove you immediately upon non-payment.
Made him do their dirty work and made the job harder b4 giving it to him.
Life ain't fair. Ain't gonna be any time soon.

Ok, I quit.

This is no different than crediting my employers for paying my income taxes my entire life.