I just luv gubmint

[phylodog]

This is 100% wrong. The building owners pay 2% taxes and passes that along the tenants. So true, they don’t directly pay a tax bill, but it is a cost of the rent they pay.



Again all these pay 2%, the owner of the trailer park pays and the trailer owner pay personal property tax too. Government housing is paid for by taxes, but on government subsidized units the owner still pays 2% to my knowledge.


So your kids working a starter job should be taxed to pay for services you receive at your property?

Negative.

The property owners pay taxes on the property they own. How they come up with the money to pay them is their business and no one gets credit for paying taxes by proxy. Nice try.

I've lived in apartments, never paid a dime in property taxes.

 

[phylodog]

Oh look. Those with the means to own apartment complexes have bribed the legislators to dump more of the tax burden onto private residence owners. Shocking.

Assessor: New law reduces taxes on apartment owners, but not for anyone else

Tippecanoe County Assessor Eric Grossman broke bad news: Expect fewer tax dollars because of a change in Indiana's assessing laws.

www.jconline.com

 

[Ingomike]

Is the amount of services provided determined by the value of the property? If you own 2 acres but are a single person living there, are you using more than the 1/4 acre with a family of 5 living there?

The number of people has little affect on the items I listed like drainage, surveying, deeds, etc. Schools should not be part of property tax.

Taxes based on the value of the holding are not even near equitable division of the cost of services provided.

Taxes are not based solely on the value, there is a formula for example a gravel drive vs. an asphalt drive vs. a concrete drive, how long and wide it is that all make up the value that is then measured by real world sales data.

 

[Ingomike]

Negative.

The property owners pay taxes on the property they own. How they come up with the money to pay them is their business and no one gets credit for paying taxes by proxy. Nice try.

I've lived in apartments, never paid a dime in property taxes.

You probably also believe you have no responsibility for road damage by semi-trucks even though most everything you own and buy is transported by them…

 

[Ingomike]

Oh look. Those with the means to own apartment complexes have bribed the legislators to dump more of the tax burden onto private residence owners. Shocking.

Assessor: New law reduces taxes on apartment owners, but not for anyone else

Tippecanoe County Assessor Eric Grossman broke bad news: Expect fewer tax dollars because of a change in Indiana's assessing laws.

www.jconline.com

Two things here. One this proves my point that apartments do pay taxes, you can debate semantics about who pays, tenant or landlord, but they do pay. Second I was unaware of the information in the article and have already fired off to contacts to learn more on this. I don’t like it! It is typical of business to try and get a better deal. The people must be equally engaged as business in defendIing themselves.

 

[tim87tr]

IMO ideally one would organize their life to avoid excessive taxation on big items like income and housing.

How would one go about that? If you want to exist in this country, you must pay taxes. If you cannot continue to produce for the government as long as you draw breath, they will take everything you have. Own nothing and be happy to have such a blessed system apparently.

In order to avoid excessive taxation, society would have to live like our grandparents, depression era folks that lived significantly below their means and saved relentlessly. That's not going to happen due to lifestyle creep with increased income and status of high dollar material goods like homes and cars. People accept the circumstances and systems they've consented to and just plod along in life without a plan, then complain.

I think a solid plan long term is to strive for a good life with learned skills or education which increases career income while at the same time living below their means. Put that extra money in tax deferred accounts while still available. Alternatively maybe even precious metals or crypto. Pensions where still available (not many) are a good plan. At least some sort of passive income besides personal or tax deferred savings.

As I mentioned in the property tax thread, alternative housing to reduce taxation includes manufactured homes, tiny homes, or barndominiums. I often see refurbished smaller square foot older homes outside the urban/suburban higher taxed areas.

One can own a lot without playing the game given to them by governments.

 

[phylodog]

One this proves my point that apartments do pay taxes, you can debate semantics about who pays, tenant or landlord, but they do pay.

It isn't semantics. If those taxes aren't paid, someone is losing something they own and that someone isn't the people paying rent. It isn't semantics, it's an attempt at blurring the facts to skew toward your position that people who own property should bear the brunt of the responsibility for services.

 

[Ingomike]

As I mentioned in the property tax thread, alternative housing to reduce taxation includes manufactured homes, tiny homes, or barndominiums. I often see refurbished smaller square foot older homes outside the urban/suburban higher taxed areas.

That was a good post. I do question parts of the quote. Obviously tiny homes would be taxed less than a McMansion but a barndominium on five acres will be taxed similarly to a house and barn of the same size as I have seen. Manufactured homes also are taxed based on size and quality. It all comes down to what you have to tax, so if you are suggesting that folks live with less to be taxed less, right on, but there there are no “higher taxed” areas, just higher valued areas…

 

[Cameramonkey]

snow plow knocked down my mail box this past winter, so **** those guys too

They dont even touch my street unless its 6 inches at a time or more. 4 inches a day over 2-3 days? Nope. wont plow us.

I cant remember the last time we got plowed.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I cant remember the last time we got plowed.

Then you did it right!

 

[Ingomike]

It isn't semantics. If those taxes aren't paid, someone is losing something they own and that someone isn't the people paying rent. It isn't semantics, it's an attempt at blurring the facts to skew toward your position that people who own property should bear the brunt of the responsibility for services.

Wrong again, if the landlord loses the property because they didn’t pay the taxes the sheriff will remove the tenant from the property. If anyone is blurring facts it is you acting like simple business where one party pays rent to another party that provides the apartment by buying the building and paying the taxes and insurance on it, only one of these parties are bringing the cash to the table, the tenant…

 

[bobzilla]

In order to avoid excessive taxation, society would have to live like our grandparents, depression era folks that lived significantly below their means and saved relentlessly. That's not going to happen due to lifestyle creep with increased income and status of high dollar material goods like homes and cars. People accept the circumstances and systems they've consented to and just plod along in life without a plan, then complain.

I think a solid plan long term is to strive for a good life with learned skills or education which increases career income while at the same time living below their means. Put that extra money in tax deferred accounts while still available. Alternatively maybe even precious metals or crypto. Pensions where still available (not many) are a good plan. At least some sort of passive income besides personal or tax deferred savings.

As I mentioned in the property tax thread, alternative housing to reduce taxation includes manufactured homes, tiny homes, or barndominiums. I often see refurbished smaller square foot older homes outside the urban/suburban higher taxed areas.

One can own a lot without playing the game given to them by governments.

I disagree. Wife and I have been living well below our means, have had no debt for years and just paid cash for property in Florida because we have spent the last 20 years living below our means. We have several friends who have done the same (living below their means) and some have raised kids. It can be done very easily, even with inflation, markets going nuts and all. Both plan to not work at all in under 10 years and in 5 scaling back how much we work b

 

[phylodog]

Wrong again, if the landlord loses the property because they didn’t pay the taxes the sheriff will remove the tenant from the property. If anyone is blurring facts it is you acting like simple business where one party pays rent to another party that provides the apartment by buying the building and paying the taxes and insurance on it, only one of these parties are bringing the cash to the table, the tenant…

********. The owner brought a hell of a lot more to the table than the tenant and has everything to lose, not just where they sleep temporarily. You want property owners taxed to pay for everything while simultaneously giving credit to people who don't own property for having paid those taxes.

Do away with property taxes or reform them, that's all I'm saying. There is plenty of tax monies collected in a myriad of different methods which don't force people out of their homes due to unrealized value. It's corrupt.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Wrong again, if the landlord loses the property because they didn’t pay the taxes the sheriff will remove the tenant from the property. If anyone is blurring facts it is you acting like simple business where one party pays rent to another party that provides the apartment by buying the building and paying the taxes and insurance on it, only one of these parties are bringing the cash to the table, the tenant…

Well, if .gov can confiscate your property for not paying them a tax on the property, you dont truly own it. Do you?

If a renter fails to pay rent, they are removed by the owner.
If a homeowner fails to pay property taxes, they are removed by The Man who will confiscate it from you to get their pound of flesh.

If you're lucky I guess you might get back any equity left over after the tax sale. (but dont count on them selling for top dollar)

Same same. Dont **** down my back and tell me its raining.

 

[Ingomike]

********. The owner brought a hell of a lot more to the table than the tenant and has everything to lose, not just where they sleep temporarily. You want property owners taxed to pay for everything while simultaneously giving credit to people who don't own property for having paid those taxes.

I see you are dug in on this so I’m out.

Do away with property taxes or reform them, that's all I'm saying. There is plenty of tax monies collected in a myriad of different methods which don't force people out of their homes due to unrealized value. It's corrupt.

We agree, and I asked who should pay for what property taxes pay now?

 

[phylodog]

We agree, and I asked who should pay for what property taxes pay now?

Everyone but in a fair manner which allows people to actually be secure in their property ownership? As I've mentioned repeatedly, there is no shortage of means by which the state obtains tax revenue and stealing property doesn't have to be one of them.

 

[phylodog]

I see you are dug in on this so I’m out.

Facts are facts and I'm not the only one who sees it clearly.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, if .gov can confiscate your property for not paying them a tax on the property, you dont truly own it. Do you?

If a renter fails to pay rent, they are removed by the owner.
If a homeowner fails to pay property taxes, they are removed by The Man who will confiscate it from you to get their pound of flesh.

If you're lucky I guess you might get back any equity left over after the tax sale. (but dont count on them selling for top dollar)

Same same. Dont **** down my back and tell me its raining.

Who should pay for the benefits your property receives from the county? This discussion is hard because most don’t seem to know what all is paid from property tax but are all too ready to eliminate it. (I don’t know everything property taxes pay for but apparently know more than most.)

I feel like we are in a time like the grandson of the owner of a company that grandad and dad worked to build and grandson just thinks the company runs because he goes to the office once in a while.

Most of what society put in place had a reason. I am certain there is stupidity and waste, but if we are not involved and even know what is going on how can we evaluate it?

Every jurisdiction has snow plow policy, do you know what that is for your area? If they are not following the policy, or you want to change the policy, you and your neighbors need to get involved at a level they cannot ignore…

 

[bobzilla]

Who should pay for the benefits your property receives from the county? This discussion is hard because most don’t seem to know what all is paid from property tax but are all too ready to eliminate it. (I don’t know everything property taxes pay for but apparently know more than most.)

I feel like we are in a time like the grandson of the owner of a company that grandad and dad worked to build and grandson just thinks the company runs because he goes to the office once in a while.

Most of what society put in place had a reason. I am certain there is stupidity and waste, but if we are not involved and even know what is going on how can we evaluate it?

Every jurisdiction has snow plow policy, do you know what that is for your area? If they are not following the policy, or you want to change the policy, you and your neighbors need to get involved at a level they cannot ignore…

here's an issue I have.... Only a city dweller will really see much of the bold portion. Rural, especially non-paved roads, you MIGHT get it graded twice a year. Sheriff's dept covers "policiing" and the overflow by staties or if a local town close by has someone free. Fire dept are all volunteer. We are offered but a small fraction of the "benefits" anyone in a city/town see, but yet are still taxed at the same rates and values increase at the same percentages as everyone else.

That was my beef with Whitestown and their forced annexation ideas. If you were actually providing me with services, then we can talk about raising rates. But they weren't, and they were requiring we followed the same rules as those in town (no open burning, no discharging firearms etc).

Property tax is theft. We are forced to pay the kings ransom for the privilege of living on his property. Don't pay and you're in the stockades with your property siezed.

 

[Ingomike]

Everyone but in a fair manner which allows people to actually be secure in their property ownership? As I've mentioned repeatedly, there is no shortage of means by which the state obtains tax revenue and stealing property doesn't have to be one of them.

What makes this a tough issue is this brings two bedrock issues many of us a passionate about into conflict.

First we believe property should be able to be owned without further payment.

Second we believe each should pay for what they use.

The struggle is, we cannot have both on this.

Do you realize what your county surveyor and drainage people do? They keep the water moving that could just park itself on your land. You told us about the wet spot across the street, that could be just the beginning of what it could be without drainage management which works to keep your property dry. Who benefits from that? You do. Then for areas that need extra drainage they build infrastructure to Handke that and may charge a drainage assessment on top of the regular tax.

Who should pay for that?