How is this not treason?

[Route 45]

There is a reasonable position it is called immigration laws...

Laws don't stop anything when the reward is greater than the risk. Most illegal immigrants have little to lose by coming here. The same is not true for their American employers. Start throwing them in jail, and I'll know that we are serious about cleaning up illegal immigration.

But that's never going to happen. Always follow the money.

You might as well get used to it. Neither party will do anything about it.

 

[Ingomike]

Laws don't stop anything when the reward is greater than the risk. Most illegal immigrants have little to lose by coming here. The same is not true for their American employers. Start throwing them in jail, and I'll know that we are serious about cleaning up illegal immigration.

But that's never going to happen. Always follow the money.

You might as well get used to it. Neither party will do anything about it.

If you can’t get it by reading posts here, folks are tired of business as usual, but you do not seem to be…

 

[Twangbanger]

...Not you specifically, but it's funny how many people here throw out the 'people are sheep' trope while baa'ing the loudest, but also don't understand people crossing a political boundary to better their lives. Only sheep sit in the pen waiting. So, that's why I don't blame the actual illegals. Had my wife's visa been denied for some reason, I wouldn't have just shrugged and said guess you can't come here. I'd have done whatever I could to smuggle her in. Tell me you wouldn't risk breaking an immigration law to keep your family intact. Open challenge to all. Tell me you're so law abiding you'd keep your wife and mother of your child abroad because you're that scared of the government's rules. Baa.

I don't think anybody is saying they don't "understand" why people want to come here. I certainly get it. Everyone who breaks a law does it "because reasons."

But you basically admitted you'd straight-up break the law, too, if the situation involved your family member. Again, "reasons." I get it.

If you don't mind my asking, where was she from, and what was it that made her life so intolerable there?

 

[Route 45]

If you can’t get it by reading posts here, folks are tired of business as usual, but you do not seem to be…

I'm a realist. You are free to give yourself ulcers worrying over something that you have absolutely no control over.

 

[Route 45]

True loser move.

The bible also says an eye for an eye. God supported his people in wars and invasions. So there is that…

So, we invade Mexico?

 

[KG1]

I'm a realist. You are free to give yourself ulcers worrying over something that you have absolutely no control over.

As a realist I guess we should learn to live with open borders then. At least we can eat spicy foods.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't think anybody is saying they don't "understand" why people want to come here. I certainly get it. Everyone who breaks a law does it "because reasons."

But you basically admitted you'd straight-up break the law, too, if the situation involved your family member. Again, "reasons." I get it.

If you don't mind my asking, where was she from, and what was it that made her life so intolerable there?

You have to understand "reasons" if you want to combat the problem, especially when a law is so widely ignored. When people have so much to gain, it is very difficult to dissuade them. Removing the economic incentives to come here is the most effective thing we can to reduce the flow of illegals coming here, and illegals staying here, remains my point.

As for my personal situation: I met her while working abroad a couple years, we got married and had a son. Then when my contract was over I returned to the US, so it was about keeping the family unit together, not 'intolerable' conditions abroad.

See: https://www.indianagunowners.com/th...in-the-middle-east.387856/page-5#post-5965922 if you want more of the details.

I have no expectations that a law keeps me from doing anything. A law just tells me the penalties for the action if detected and convicted, it doesn't actually keep me from doing it. If I'm willing to accept the penalties, I'm willing to break the law assuming the law is the only thing keeping me from doing the action (say, unlike smoking marijuana where the law doesn't dissuade me, a lack of desire to do the activity dissuades me or theft were moral concerns dissuade me). Since I have no moral concern with keeping my family together and it's an activity I want to do, the law is the only source of friction and, to me, is completely ineffective in altering my behavior in this matter.

Let's look at a less serious option, and one that's probably near universal here. I routinely accept the risk of a fine in order to speed. I have no moral qualms with speeding as long as it doesn't endanger anyone. The penalty is so negligible to me that the sight risk of being detected and punished via a financial penalty that, to me, is insignificant is completely insufficient to dissuade my enjoyment of driving faster than the man wants me to. Personally, I'd pre-pay a fine each month if there was an option to, just buy a little sticker that lets you drive 20 over anywhere outside a school or construction zone.

On the flip side, I'd like to own a suppressor and not bother with the paperwork and hassle. I have no moral qualms with suppressor ownership for free and without paperwork, and frankly think that's how it should be. However, the penalties are such that I don't take the risk so the law is effective in modifying my behavior in this instance.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Totally agree! Just as an add on, for years I've been wondering how much is the low wage paid to migrants, and how much is die to the LACK of other BS that goes with legal employee's. Collecting taxes out of payroll, Unemployment insurance (particularly messy given the temporary nature of the jobs), and a pile of regulations. Don't forget general liability and workmans comp insurance, and the very real threat of lawsuit if some dumb*** gets hurt on the job. If an illegal undocumented worker laying shingles falls off the roof and hurts his leg, or wrenches his back trying show up his cousin, there aren't likely to be lawyers involved.

The ability to treat workers as a disposable resource is definitely a motivator for some. Some landlords cater to the illegals for the same reasons. Larger employers are still paying all the same things, just to a fake ID. Illegals working in factories tend to have some document that the HR department pretends to believe. If they get fired, they reapply with a new name, and HR pretends to believe them again.

That is the main reason I'm so against illegal workers. I've got no issue with the workers. I have an issue with the working conditions and wages they allow to flourish in certain industries in the US. If you want to live like a reasonably successful brick layer in Pakistan, embrace a true free market for labor where there is no border restrictions and we'll all get there.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh please. Enough with the bleeding heart for the criminals who break into our country. Unless you leave the doors to your house unlocked so that anyone who has a "need" can enter, your argument is lame.

It's almost like you need to be offended. What, exactly, do you think my argument is?

I lock my doors for the same reason I'd lock the borders. To protect my economic interests against someone else's. That doesn't mean I need to ignore why they are doing it, understand that we need to address the root causes to be effective at stopping illegal immigration, or demonize anyone to do it.

As I mentioned to another poster, I've actually assisted in the enforcement of immigration law, including on the border as part of a joint task force. You?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So if I come in with a plane after curfew and refuse to show an ID to you when you're providing security for the airport, are you just going to accept that and look away?

I'm 99.999% certain I'd be on the ground in cuffs, with other officers on the way to figure out who I am and what I'm doing.

What law was broken? I can't demand ID (I can ask, but not demand) unless I observe an ordinance or law broken. I can't enforce federal law unless dual badged as a federal officer. I cannot enforce FAA civil laws, period. Private aviation is a thing and it is certainly not within the authority of local/state police departments.

As an example of why it doesn't work the way you think it works:

Did you know that if you are a licensed drone pilot by the FAA that interfering with you while flying the drone is illegal? Same as interfering with a 'real' pilot. Did you know that in previous legal inservices I have been told that if someone is breaking the law by flying a drone where it's forbidden to that I'm not to physically touch them until they land the drone and lose their 'pilot' halo? Even if they run. I can follow them, but my own department says I can face legal and civil penalties for touching them as long as they are a 'pilot'.

 

[Denny347]

I'm not a cop, and I'm not familiar enough with those laws to know.

That is my point.

I just find it unlikely that I would be going on about my business if I was in that situation.

You think that the local police would stop you for exiting a plane on the tarmac at night and demand your ID, where you came from, and where you are going? Unless you are violating a traffic infraction or city ordinance (In Indiana anyway), I have no legal right to demand ANYONE to produce identification. Quite frankly, I don't WANT to have that ability. If there is a plane full of illegal aliens then complain to the authorities who DO have the legal right to ask such things, ICE/BPD.

Maybe my past interactions with police, the officer has been in error.

I cannot possibly comment to different events, by different officers, involving different circumstances, all of which are unknown to me.

 

[gregr]

It's almost like you need to be offended. What, exactly, do you think my argument is?

I lock my doors for the same reason I'd lock the borders. To protect my economic interests against someone else's. That doesn't mean I need to ignore why they are doing it, understand that we need to address the root causes to be effective at stopping illegal immigration, or demonize anyone to do it.

As I mentioned to another poster, I've actually assisted in the enforcement of immigration law, including on the border as part of a joint task force. You?

Nope, I don`t "need" to be offended, but sadly, there`s enough out there to offend all of who care.

And nope again, I`m not a LEO, so I have not assisted in rounding up slimeball invaders. I contact my congress critter regularly however to ask them to finally shut and lock the back door to America. You?

 

[tackdriver]

The OP brings up a great question - Is this Treason? I'm not a legal scholar, or even a lawyer, and I can't say if this matches the definition of Treason. I think that it's a good question, and likely gets into Intent which makes things difficult to prosecute (again, not a lawyer).

What is A LOT more clear is that at least many of the recent immigrants are entering the country illegally, and committing a felony. It is also clear that the current administration, from Brandon on down the chain, are assisting them in the commission of a felony. Many U.S. citizens are likely committing their own felonies while the 'help'.

For me, this is not about immigration or whether people should or should not be allowed in (that's an important but separate issue). This is about the most senior individuals in our government blatantly ignoring the law, and participating in crime. It's that simple!

Imagine there was a small group of really hungry people in the Kroger parking lot. Being the compassionate people they are, the mayor, the Chief of Police, and a local Judge decide to arm the group and helped them ROB the store for food. This was armed robbery, and the 'leaders' were involved. It doesn't matter that the people were hungry!

 

[tackdriver]

I adamantly support the Constitution, and believe in a system of laws.

I believe that the cornerstone of our country's greatness has always been the idea that we ALL agree to follow the same rules.

I don't expect it to work perfect, and understand that some individuals/groups will always be able to bend things a little to their favor.

Now we have the President and Vice President, the Attorney General, and the Sec. of DHS blatantly disregarding the rule of law, as well as encouraging and aiding others in committing crimes. They have BREACHED THE CONTRACT in spirit and in deed. They are aware of the breach, and have made no effort to remedy it or repair the damages.

When one party breaches an agreement, they can no longer compel other parties to honor it.

I don't know about "Treason", but this (and an iceberg of other things) is absolutely a breach of the agreement, and citizens are being harmed.

 

[BugI02]

I need to find some atheist beliefs to ridicule. Oh wait, they don't have any. That's convenient, huh?

They believe 'the science' - when it parallels the beliefs they already hold

People with a belief structure built on sand are ... not blameless, shall we say ... in where we are today

 

[gregr]

I adamantly support the Constitution, and believe in a system of laws.

I believe that the cornerstone of our country's greatness has always been the idea that we ALL agree to follow the same rules.

I don't expect it to work perfect, and understand that some individuals/groups will always be able to bend things a little to their favor.

Now we have the President and Vice President, the Attorney General, and the Sec. of DHS blatantly disregarding the rule of law, as well as encouraging and aiding others in committing crimes. They have BREACHED THE CONTRACT in spirit and in deed. They are aware of the breach, and have made no effort to remedy it or repair the damages.

When one party breaches an agreement, they can no longer compel other parties to honor it.

I don't know about "Treason", but this (and an iceberg of other things) is absolutely a breach of the agreement, and citizens are being harmed.

Both law, and order are a fundamental necessity for a Republic. Add to that, a moral people, because freedoms are too easily misused unless a moral compass constrains a people. Bear in mind that the men who drafted our Constitution, Bill of Rights and wrote the Declaration of Independence were Christian men.


"We have no government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."

John Adams

 

[BugI02]

Curfew? I cannot even enforce that. Refuse to show ID? In Indiana anyway, I cannot compel a person to show their ID unless they have committed an infraction or city ordinance violation. Otherwise, they can tell me to pound sand and there is nothing I can do about it. It is similar in most states. You insist that I would have PC for arrest in this scenario. Lets assume this happened at the Indy Airport. What specific Indiana laws could I enforce? Remember, I cannot enforce Federal laws, only State/local.

Trespassing or breach of security. If he is local police, there are almost certainly airport police that are specifically authorized to enforce airport security and if he is inside the perimeter and authorized to patrol he works with them and can contact them. I don't know if the town or the county controls the airport but it will be one of the two. Also, commercial air travel originates there so the security standards are much higher. Explain what appeared to be going on, receive the authorization to make detainments and let the whole thing get sorted at the appropriate level

Weren't you the one defending the ten NYPD officers responding to a restaurant trespassing complaint, explaining how they didn't have the authority to adjudicate the issue and ignore the complaint? How is this any different, other than the officer himself would be the complainant. The presence of some 'passengers' in leg monitors ups the ante even more as the rules for prisoner transfer from state to state usually require it be done on specially secure flights staffed by US marshalls

The whole thing stinks and is devoid of any shred of legality, which is why it is conducted secretly in the wee hours of the morning

It is just a continuation of immigrant smuggling pipelines on this side of the border run by a different cartel

 

[BugI02]

You might as well get used to it. Neither party will do anything about it.

Yes, I thought this would appear soon

It's inevitable. We can't stop it. Just lie back and enjoy it

Another devotee of the leftist mindset that none of the stupid ideas they buy into will ever affect them or their neighborhood

A failure at simple linear extrapolation

 

[Leadeye]

Might be worth a try arresting and prosecuting the top corporate slots of companies that egregiously hire illegals, illegally. It would have to be done right though, haul out CEOs and VPs handcuffed with nightsticks behind their arms, get them on the news for all their country club buddies to see, into the bouncy paddy wagon with the rest of the criminals. Conviction would result in hard time on a prison farm, chain gang, working daylight to dark or a recycling center sorting trash. You would need the right kind of guards, on horses preferably, and armed with 97 Winchesters of course.

 

[Cldedhnds]

Glad to see some BP agents push back to “semantics”



"That’s the problem, chief, for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. That’s exactly what’s happening here. Good men are doing nothing. You’re allowing illegal aliens to be dropped off in communities."

Border Patrol agents get into heated exchange with leadership during Mayorkas visit, leaked video shows

U.S. Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz got into a tense back and forth with agents in Laredo, Texas, Friday, as Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas paid a visit.

www.foxnews.com