How fast is your draw?

[cedartop]

Sub 2 second draw is attainable for anyone that gets some training and practices, it's really not that fast when you observe it in a vid. 1 second first shot on target from concealment is FAST and unattainable by most.
To your point, BBIs stated in a class I attended that what he heard in almost all cases from people involved in self-defense situations was "it didn't happen like I thought it would".. Situational awareness is probably the best defense but it's not easy to stay at Defcon 2 every moment you are in public.

While the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze for most people, I disagree that a 1 second draw is unattainable by most. I totally agree that it is not important, but the thread is about what is fast for a draw.

 

[BigRed]

I'll bet I can shoot my foot before you can!

 

[gregkl]

You can do way better. You are over confirming with the dot and quite possibly the irons. You could also be reacting too slow to the beep. (If that is your go signal) I am far from being the worlds fastest shooter, not even the fastest on this forum so if I can get decent times so can you. Here are some recent times running the Rangemaster SCAT drill (Short Combat Accuracy Test)
Short Combat Accuracy Test (SCAT) I don't have video because it was just a practice session, but the numbers aren't all that impressive anyway.

RFTS-Q or IALEFI-QP silhouette

Scored: inner chest circle = 5, second chest circle = 4, head circle = 5, any hit in the torso outside the circles above the belt line = 2 points.

Hit factor scoring

5 yards Draw and fire 4 rounds to the chest 2.25 seconds
5 yards From Ready, fire 1 head shot Do this twice .57 , .60
5 yards From Ready, Dominant Hand Only, 3 rounds 1.86
5 yards From Ready, Non-dominant Hand Only, 3 rounds 2.09
7 yards Draw and fire 4 rounds 2.57
10 yards Draw and fire 4 rounds 2.87

20 rounds total
Possible score = 100 100

Record time for each stage, and add together for a total time. 12.81
Divide total points by total time, for an Index. 7.806
Multiply index by 20 for a final score. 156

Par score = 100. Goal is score above 100.

Examples:
96 points divided by 23.6 seconds = 4.07 X 20= 81.4
94 points divided by 20.2 seconds = 4.65 X 20= 93.1
98 points divided by 12.98 seconds= 7.55 X 20= 151.0

80-100 Competent
101-125 Advanced
126+ Highly Skilled

I am over confirming the dot for sure. I just now in the last two range sessions focused on the target and when the dot appears I pull the trigger. I was doing some drills from a ready position hitting small targets at 10 yards rather quickly.

From a draw I still struggle with having that dot appear. Reps should fix that.

As far as irons, probably doing that also. The front sight is fuzzy so I have to work at getting somewhat of a good look at it.

Shooting fast is new to me so hopefully you are right that I can get way better. It's really humbling that people do a Bill Drill in the time I get the first shot off.

I'll try the drill. I assume I can use a target like this:

This is the type I currently use.

 

[cedartop]

I am over confirming the dot for sure. I just now in the last two range sessions focused on the target and when the dot appears I pull the trigger. I was doing some drills from a ready position hitting small targets at 10 yards rather quickly.

From a draw I still struggle with having that dot appear. Reps should fix that.

As far as irons, probably doing that also. The front sight is fuzzy so I have to work at getting somewhat of a good look at it.

Shooting fast is new to me so hopefully you are right that I can get way better. It's really humbling that people do a Bill Drill in the time I get the first shot off.

I'll try the drill. I assume I can use a target like this:

This is the type I currently use.

Yes, that would work fine. This is a good drill as it is not about absolute blazing times but blending speed with accuracy and it works different presentations and FS/SHO/WHO. With any of these test type drills you should be paying attention to what you are doing, taking notes, and looking at your scores to determine what your weak points are and what you need to do to get better. I am actually just using a 3X5 card now for any of my straight up stand and deliver shooting drills and trying to maintain accuracy while increasing speed.

 

[gregkl]

Yes, that would work fine. This is a good drill as it is not about absolute blazing times but blending speed with accuracy and it works different presentations and FS/SHO/WHO. With any of these test type drills you should be paying attention to what you are doing, taking notes, and looking at your scores to determine what your weak points are and what you need to do to get better. I am actually just using a 3X5 card now for any of my straight up stand and deliver shooting drills and trying to maintain accuracy while increasing speed.

I use the numbered shapes to do my "stand up and deliver" drills. I do have specific drills I work on along with working on the fundamentals(support hand grip, follow through, etc) that I so easily forget when I have the timer beeping and explosions occurring near my face!

 

[Jon Smith]

I will say again, nothing beats a well placed shot.
Practice is always a good thing, never stop and say I am good enough.
Do not compare yourself to someone else, just keep practicing. SAFELY. No one needs racing stripes.
Remember, you do not automatically fire in every situation.
There is no substitute for situational awareness, keep your head on a swivel.

All of the above is why my wife makes me keep my cartrige in my shirt pocket!


One of the scariest moments took place several years ago for me. The local Sheriff's office used the drill that you were at the bench, gun on the bench. A deputy had his hand on your shoulder, when he lifted his hand you were to pick up your weapon and put one round on target.
WAKE UP CALL: that guy could run 25 ft. =/- before most could fire. That translates to a hand to hand situation if he is coming at you!

Keep you head on a swivel and get off the line, move sideways while drawing.

 

[cedartop]

I will say again, nothing beats a well placed shot.
Practice is always a good thing, never stop and say I am good enough.
Do not compare yourself to someone else, just keep practicing. SAFELY. No one needs racing stripes.
Remember, you do not automatically fire in every situation.
There is no substitute for situational awareness, keep your head on a swivel.

All of the above is why my wife makes me keep my cartrige in my shirt pocket!


One of the scariest moments took place several years ago for me. The local Sheriff's office used the drill that you were at the bench, gun on the bench. A deputy had his hand on your shoulder, when he lifted his hand you were to pick up your weapon and put one round on target.
WAKE UP CALL: that guy could run 25 ft. =/- before most could fire. That translates to a hand to hand situation if he is coming at you!

Keep you head on a swivel and get off the line, move sideways while drawing.

The original point of the Tueller principle

 

[indyartisan]

I could put rounds on target quicker before I joined INGO and learned shooting holes through my pocket was bad form.

 

[BigRed]

 

[indyartisan]

About 14 minutes

 

[bwframe]

Last time my draw was timed, Coach was running the timer and in my ear. I started at 1.5 and threatened one second, but never got there.

It takes a lot of competition reps to put consistent rounds on target while going full tilt. The same as drawing to the beginning of the beep vs reacting to it.

Awareness and training are of utmost importance, but for pure mechanics of things like the draw, there is no replacement for competition shooting, even just occasional. The stress of the timer and comparison to others doing the same is invaluable.

I will say again, nothing beats a well placed shot.

Sure it does, my friend. Three less than well placed shots in your torso, before you can get off the first one, beats the hell out of it. Especially when your target is on the move.

 

[bwframe]

 

[Jackson]

I've never really been able to do better than 1.5 to 1.75 with any consistency. That was when I was shooting. Add a second or more now.

I used to be faster with one hand though, out to 5 or 7 yards. Putting my hands together adds .25 I guess.

I never put a lot of focus on getting it too much faster.

As for the Tueller concept, its just a concept to demonstrate the danger zone. If they're moving and you're in the open, I suggest moving. You could also go to hands before drawing. If they're running that hard, you better have great shot placement with a bullet.

 

[04FXSTS]

IDPA match a couple years ago had my favorite COF, three targets at about three feet. Buzzer goes off, draw with concealment garment and give each target two rounds with retention. Retention is strong hand only with upper arm touching torso. I could feel my draw was not that good and only shot it in 3.2 seconds. Good friend on my squad did it in 2.7 seconds and another did about 3 seconds flat. Myself and my 2.7 second buddy were both shooting 45ACP S&W revolvers. Jim.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Under 2 seconds for first shot on target from concealment but as others have said you don't know unless there's a timer. Train and shoot some matches like the Carry gun match at Parabellum or Tim's Action pistol.. It's enjoyable and gives you a sense of your abilities compared to others.
I have a vid from Carrygun hoser match a year or so ago but can't figure out how to attach it.

Using a phone, PC/laptop, Windows/Mac? @Bigtanker is a good phone to INGO source. I've only attached videos from the webz.

Second on Carry Gun matches. I have to get back on that track. 2.05 was the best I ever did... and I knew a BEEP was coming.

 

[flightsimmer]

I don't draw, I simply put my hand in my jacket or sweater pocket casually before I think I'll need it and if I do need it I can shoot through the pocket.
On very warm or hot days I wear an untucked shirt and situational awareness is my best defense.
I carry a S&W 642 plus a backup 9mm,
it works for me.

 

[churchmouse]

I used to do a repetition drill that was more of a muscle memory thing than an actual search for lightning fast.
Casual at 1st putting everything together and over time building speed. Never actually timed it officially but I was very comfortable with what I had at that time.

 

[DadSmith]

Just curious - how fast is your draw and how accurate is it? I carry appendix and I can (not under duress) get a consistent 2.5 second draw and hit the 9/10 ring from 5 yards or so. I am trying to get to a 1.5 second draw and I can do it now but my grip and my aim goes to hell. I can still hit the target but its sloppy and is definitely not in the 9/10 ring.

View attachment 169818

How fast are you with a winter jacket, shirt etc on? Do you practice pulling a jacket and shirt out of the way as you draw and fire?

It's also useful for those who don't know human anatomy to use that type of target.
Similar to targets you train young, or novice hunters where to shoot deer.

This one is an arm & leg, but fun to shoot especially if training people new to self defense shooting.

Action Target : Bag of Bones "Man w/ Two Guns" Anatomical Target

Bag of Bones "Man w/ Two Guns" Anatomical Target

shop.actiontarget.com

This one is $34 per 100

Action Target | B21E Florida

B-21E-SPD: Modified Blue Florida B-21E Target for Seminole Police Dept. Features standard B-21E Target with additional vital hit areas, handgun & vital anatomy. Size 23" X 35". Blue.

shop.actiontarget.com

Edit:

I've seen a lot of YouTube videos on fast draw and shoot. They never show the target they just shot for some reason. A few do but so far not many.

With winter clothing on. Draw and fire starting with my arms at my side is around 2 seconds. At 7yds I can hit the heart. 2 seconds is very slow if closer than that if a bad guy was coming at you. Probably slow at 7yds depending on how fast the bad guy is.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Practicing the presentation is important. On the range with a timer and free mind can get you a consistent 1.5 seconds. It is important to study however, that knowing when and if you have the will to present, can trump presentation time on the street.

 

[gregkl]

You can do way better. You are over confirming with the dot and quite possibly the irons. You could also be reacting too slow to the beep. (If that is your go signal) I am far from being the worlds fastest shooter, not even the fastest on this forum so if I can get decent times so can you. Here are some recent times running the Rangemaster SCAT drill (Short Combat Accuracy Test)
Short Combat Accuracy Test (SCAT) I don't have video because it was just a practice session, but the numbers aren't all that impressive anyway.

RFTS-Q or IALEFI-QP silhouette

Scored: inner chest circle = 5, second chest circle = 4, head circle = 5, any hit in the torso outside the circles above the belt line = 2 points.

Hit factor scoring

5 yards Draw and fire 4 rounds to the chest 2.25 seconds
5 yards From Ready, fire 1 head shot Do this twice .57 , .60
5 yards From Ready, Dominant Hand Only, 3 rounds 1.86
5 yards From Ready, Non-dominant Hand Only, 3 rounds 2.09
7 yards Draw and fire 4 rounds 2.57
10 yards Draw and fire 4 rounds 2.87

20 rounds total
Possible score = 100 100

Record time for each stage, and add together for a total time. 12.81
Divide total points by total time, for an Index. 7.806
Multiply index by 20 for a final score. 156

Par score = 100. Goal is score above 100.

Examples:
96 points divided by 23.6 seconds = 4.07 X 20= 81.4
94 points divided by 20.2 seconds = 4.65 X 20= 93.1
98 points divided by 12.98 seconds= 7.55 X 20= 151.0

80-100 Competent
101-125 Advanced
126+ Highly Skilled

Cedartop, I'm putting together a spreadsheet to keep score of how I progress with this drill. I'm trying to figure out how the scoring works. I can't seem to figure out how shooting 6 drills within this with 20 rounds equals 100 as a possible score. Can you tell me how each piece is scored?

Or is it as simple as you start with 100 and deduct points for being off target ?