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Gun v Knife
- Thread starter ajeandy
- Start date
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squirrelhntr
Shooter
[video=youtube;STtxUDYjK74]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STtxUDYjK74&feature=player_detailpage#t=31 2[/video]
or this, Okinawan kobudo. this form of fighting is said to have started in Okinawa because of weapon restrictions
or this, Okinawan kobudo. this form of fighting is said to have started in Okinawa because of weapon restrictions
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After watching some of the videos, perhaps my mishaps with blades are good preparation in case someone attacks me. I know what it feel like to be cut. And cut. And cut.
I also know what a karambit will do if it's really sharp. and not from cutting hunks of pork. Heh.
I also know what a karambit will do if it's really sharp. and not from cutting hunks of pork. Heh.
You are exactly correct, hell I have had my Super 7 and the ZT0620 open successfully with the wave making the distinctive "thunk" noise only to look at the blade and see the lock didnt have time to activate the blade came open so fast. The only wave opener I have had that is 100% is my custom and that is because Ernie makes the wave catch on those bigger because when he says his knives are fighters he is not messing around.
iChokePeople
Master
- Feb 11, 2011
- 4,556
- 48
^^ . Agreed. And if you've never tried to deploy a knife under REAL pressure, try it sometime. Especially a folder. If you carry a folder for self defense, I applaud your unflappable optimism. Also agree about the unicorn nature of knife fights in the USA in 2015, vs. stabbings, and on the fact that very few knife wounds end fights quickly. Some have heard me rant about this, so I'll spare the others.
The Professor
Plinker
One of the things I would push into my students heads is the fact that if you DO end up using a knife as your primary weapon, you WILL end up in court, even if the Prosecutor dismisses his case with you. I promise you, the family will pull you into civil court.
And. . .what's going to be the first thing they show? A giant representation of the cuts and slashes you inflicted on your attacker. MBC, the style I'm more relying upon for knife/counterknife defense does away with the "gutting" or "bleeding out" techniques. We don't go after a CNS strike because it's damned difficult with a small, concealable knife. Martial Blade Concepts is heavily based upon the Filipino systems and goes for both mobility and "applicability" strikes. In other words, I don't stab or cut at the body of the individual. It's been proven many times that relying upon exsanguination (i.e., bleeding out) from cuts doesn't work. We've all heard the stories of the perp shot 2, 3 or 4 dozen times who runs away from the scene only to collapse somewhere else, later. If that perp can take that much damage and run away with that many holes and cavities in him, it means he still has the ability to do you harm.
However, if I target areas such as the flexor tendons, extensor tendon, bicep, tricep, etc., then the attacker can't hold a knife, extend his fingers, flex his arm or extend his arm, in that order. Better yet, I don't have to get as close to the attacker if I target his extended forearm or upper arm as if I would if I went for his torso. Additionally, cuts to the Sartorius, the Vastus Medialis and Lateralis muscles and the Quadriceps Femoris tendons are designed to alter the structure of the leg, rendering it incapable of supporting weight.
As I've stated elsewhere, I've studied a plethora of martial arts. Most had knife fighting forms or techniques at one point or another. Common techniques included slashing across the forehead to induce bleeding into the eyes of your attacker. Cutting the attacker's throat, severing arteries and airways. Stabbing techniques to the ears to "penetrate to the brain." Cuts across the stomach to (and I quote one of my earlier instructors) ". . .spill his guts out so he'll trip on them. . ."
Your attacker will go to the hospital or morgue. Pictures will be taken. Lawyers will post those pictures up in all their gruesome 4' x 4' glossy glory for the jury to see and get sickened by.
Which would any of us rather have and try to defend: A picture of the inside of an attacker's forearm where you severed his flexor tendons, forcing him to drop his weapon or, at least, be incapable of manipulating it. . .or one of several yards of greasy, pink-blue lower intestines laying on your victims. . oops, sorry. . .attacker's stomach?
Either, or both, may have worked in fending off the attacker, but you'll have a lot of uphill battles to fight. Why not make it easier?
As to the cane, the cane is a wonderful weapon to use and have. One of the great things about a cane is that you're protected by the Americans With Disabilities Act in having one. You can even fly on an airplane with it. Just be ready to answer the only question the TSA is allowed to ask "Sir (or Ma'am), do you use this cane as a prop?" . . .or. . ."Do you use this cane to prop yourself up?" Any other questions might be insensitive.
I've flown with my cane (a Canemasters' Fighting Cane, designed to optimize the cane, it'self as a weapon). The flight attendants will ask if you want them to hang your cane up. You can refuse and take the cane to your seat. One warning, though, you cannot sit in the Emergency Row seat with a cane (remember, you need it to help with your handicap or disability). But, at least you're on a plane with weapon you can use to defend yourself.
The Professor
wesnellans
Expert
As I'm reading through this thread, thinking to myself, "All this talk of knives and their cutty/slashy/woundy, and no Rhino?", here he comes.
I feel ever so much better with input from our resident ER regular
As I'm reading through this thread, thinking to myself, "All this talk of knives and their cutty/slashy/woundy, and no Rhino?", here he comes.
I feel ever so much better with input from our resident ER regular
Glad to be of service!
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,937
- 113
The prosecutor doesn't have to dismiss his case if you're never arrested. I've had several self defense stabbings, including the gut spilling one I mentioned, where the guy was questioned and released and never charged. I've no idea if he was sued civilly, but I suspect not.
I agree that the pictures and that I suspect jurors react differently to stabbings than to shootings. I can't prove it, though, and even after sitting through jury trials of shooters vs stabbers it's only a theory on my part.
I have spent some time with some serious knife training. Here's a couple things that rubbed off on me:
A "good" knife attacker is not going to show me the knife at 21'. First indication of a "knife" attack maybe getting punched up close, and then notice "oops I'm bleeding." Hence premium on alertness or SA, keeping suspicious people at distance with the south-Narc style "managing suspicious contacts" and the like. Don't assume any seemingly fist-or-open hand attack is limited to fists or open hands. (This does not mean I can just start shooting because I assume the attacker has a knife -- it does mean that a "fist-only" fight tends to get handled differently than "knife attacks.")
If attacked with a knife, I have to deal with the knife first. Trying to fend off a knife attack with one hand and drawing with the other doesn't work. It doesn't matter if I kill him with a gun immediately if he has gutted me and arranged for me to die slowly by bleeding, sepsis, or maybe I'm lucky and get to wear a colostomy bag forever. I have to either make distance, lock up the knife (hand), land a hit that staggers or shuts down the opponent, or do something that provides enough of a gap for me to then draw a weapon and finish the fight or escape.
I can't run backwards as fast as everyone else can run forward. Backing up is bad idea -- can trip, it puts me on his rhythm, can't make distance. Sideways, forward at 45 degree, or even direct counter attack. This is very hard to remember, backing away from danger is really ingrained. But it's still generally a bad idea.
Just because I am stabbed (and notice it) doesn't mean I have lost. God will tell me when I am dead. Until then, keep fighting.
If you want to have real fun, have TWO people with knives attack you.
p.s. Now with my arthritic knee I am much attracted to the idea of canes for SD as well. I am going to have to look into this seriously.
A "good" knife attacker is not going to show me the knife at 21'. First indication of a "knife" attack maybe getting punched up close, and then notice "oops I'm bleeding." Hence premium on alertness or SA, keeping suspicious people at distance with the south-Narc style "managing suspicious contacts" and the like. Don't assume any seemingly fist-or-open hand attack is limited to fists or open hands. (This does not mean I can just start shooting because I assume the attacker has a knife -- it does mean that a "fist-only" fight tends to get handled differently than "knife attacks.")
If attacked with a knife, I have to deal with the knife first. Trying to fend off a knife attack with one hand and drawing with the other doesn't work. It doesn't matter if I kill him with a gun immediately if he has gutted me and arranged for me to die slowly by bleeding, sepsis, or maybe I'm lucky and get to wear a colostomy bag forever. I have to either make distance, lock up the knife (hand), land a hit that staggers or shuts down the opponent, or do something that provides enough of a gap for me to then draw a weapon and finish the fight or escape.
I can't run backwards as fast as everyone else can run forward. Backing up is bad idea -- can trip, it puts me on his rhythm, can't make distance. Sideways, forward at 45 degree, or even direct counter attack. This is very hard to remember, backing away from danger is really ingrained. But it's still generally a bad idea.
Just because I am stabbed (and notice it) doesn't mean I have lost. God will tell me when I am dead. Until then, keep fighting.
If you want to have real fun, have TWO people with knives attack you.
p.s. Now with my arthritic knee I am much attracted to the idea of canes for SD as well. I am going to have to look into this seriously.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,937
- 113
Something else to consider is the versatility of a blunt weapon. A blade is deadly force no matter what, and anywhere I can pull a knife from I can pull a j-frame from. A cane or sap, though, gives you more options. A swift poke in the gut with a cane will result in less paperwork and scrutiny than a quick stab in the gut.
Being in EMS they happen quite often actually. At bars, at house parties or on the corner. Lots of people are to poor to get guns, almost anyone can get a 1$ knife or box cutter. Hell, even a kitchen can be used to great effect against a person with a gun, seen it all first hand.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,937
- 113
Are you talking stabbings or actual knife fights, as in both people are armed with knives and attempting to harm each other? I've seen plenty of people cut, almost no knife fights.
The Professor
Plinker
Perhaps I should have been clearer and more specific: Rather than "knife fights," maybe I should have said "Knife Duels." Some guy walking up and stabbing or attacking another person with a knife is not a "duel," nor is it when only one person has a knife against an unarmed opponent.
The Professor
The Professor
That video is great. Tactic shared in the video are worth checking. To combat for self defense purpose I believe on that video mentioned ways are highly effective. Since knife have better advantages then gun, but if you have knowledge to act wisely then gun can be a great survival option for you.
Excellent post!! Bravo!! I couldn't agree to this more. An edged weapon is an excellent secondary tool especially when it comes to firearms retention.
Onionsanddragons
Marksman
Yeah... Unless I was murdering someone, eliminating sentries, etc. a knife would NEVER be my choice of primary defensive tool.
Gun: way more reach. Scarier to idiots. Draws more attention, which can result in assistance. Mostly way more reach.
Cane/Baton/Ubrella/Stick: more reach, less liability, can be employed at the outset if you have some minimal training on takedown striking as it isn't automatically lethal force unless you are bashing about the head and shoulders willy nilly.
Sturdy Flashlight: keeps you out of fights, less reach but similar in use to a stick.
Ive been cut; it ain't fun. I don't ever want to be in a knife fight. Even if you are twice as good as the other guy, you will still likely get cut. I was lucky in my encounter, as my reaction to being "punched" was to trap the guys arm and wrench it. I have no illusions that if I hadn't, I would have been dead or spending the night in the ER instead of having my late mother stitch me up.
Gun: way more reach. Scarier to idiots. Draws more attention, which can result in assistance. Mostly way more reach.
Cane/Baton/Ubrella/Stick: more reach, less liability, can be employed at the outset if you have some minimal training on takedown striking as it isn't automatically lethal force unless you are bashing about the head and shoulders willy nilly.
Sturdy Flashlight: keeps you out of fights, less reach but similar in use to a stick.
Ive been cut; it ain't fun. I don't ever want to be in a knife fight. Even if you are twice as good as the other guy, you will still likely get cut. I was lucky in my encounter, as my reaction to being "punched" was to trap the guys arm and wrench it. I have no illusions that if I hadn't, I would have been dead or spending the night in the ER instead of having my late mother stitch me up.
