GUN SNOBS

[10Forward]

Depending on the forum, there are firearm snobs, ammo snobs, car snobs, beer snobs, golf snobs....you name it - it happens on every single forum there is.

I wouldn't worry too much about it - they aren't paying your bills, you are.

 

[cwillour]

Not certain if the OP is still reading this thread and kinda' hate to be the a-hole here (well, my wife says I do it too often for me to actually "hate" it) but if I were still in a situation like yours I would avoid the .45 carry gun for a little while, and even then I might avoid the Hi-Point in favor of a used Ruger P90 or similar <$400 pistol.

My first and foremost reason is the cost of ammo. Right now, .45acp FMJ is running $25-30/50rds when you can find it and even 6 months ago it was often $16-20/50rds. Carry ammo often runs $0.75-$1.00/rd at local stores, although it can usually be had for much less once you can buy in bulk online. Considering that most folks (snobs or not) would suggest a minimum of 3-400 trouble-free rounds (including 30-100rds of carry ammo) before you start carrying the gun, the cost of the pistol itself is hardly the only issue. (In honesty, these round counts would be on the low side for me and many of the users on the forum, but do they represent the lowest ranges I have heard over the last few years.)

Budgeting for 250rds of FMJ + 50rds of HP would imply an ammo expense of roughly $165 on the lower end just to get the pistol ready for carry. Add $50-100 for accessories (carry holster, spare mag, etc) plus a couple hundred for the pistol and you have a significant investment. From your original post, that $4-600 will create quite a pinch in the budget.

As for the Ruger (or similar manufacturer) suggestion, the way I look at it Hi-Point has earned a solid reputation as a baseline handgun manufacturer but with some questions as to the durability of their designs. A new or used Ruger, on the other hand, can still be had for <$450 (I saw a P90 earlier this year for $400 w/ 200rds of HP and Bud's last had them listed new for $443, for example.) In the scope of the purchase, I would much rather spend the extra $100-250 on a Ruger or similar manufacturer knowing that for the difference in total cost (say $550 on a used Ruger vs $400 on the Hi-Point) I would be purchasing a pistol which has earned high marks for durability over the years.

FWIW, my first pistol was a Ruger MKII that took all I could scrape together to purchase, but that pistol is still with me and still shoots well 1000s (10,000s ?) of rounds later and is the pistol I used to get my wife comfortable shooting.

As you already have a handgun that is serving you well, I would suggest you save a little longer until you find the right Bersa, Ruger, CZ, Springfield, S&W, Taurus (?), EAA (?), etc that fits your budget.

FWIW, the rest of the brands you mentioned do not give me anywhere near the concerns a Hi-Point pistol would.

 

[Shadow8088]

Depending on the forum, there are firearm snobs, ammo snobs, car snobs, beer snobs, golf snobs....you name it - it happens on every single forum there is.

I wouldn't worry too much about it - they aren't paying your bills, you are.

whoa now... the rest of it is generally harmless.. but you just brought beer into it.. people can get HURT in those "discussions"..

 

[Johnny C]

I hate those Mosin snobs putting down my mauser!

Seriously though. being guys, I'll bet a lot of the "snobbery" is just plain 'ol ribbing like us guys love to do to each other.

I rib my buddy about his 3000$ EGW race gun not being a colt like mine... A real 1911...when we are shooting our 1911s. He outshoots me pathetically, but I still rib him.

Another buddy of mine got a Bushy before the latest rush and I always ask him how that "trash-master" shoots, and we both laugh about it.

There are some guns that I dont like the quality of, having had them...Jennings...cough ...cough...., but I respect anyone that is excercizing their 2A rights, no matter their financial situation.

Dont let the haters bother you brother!

 

[tdmman]

When I was 19, I had to eat a nickel candy bar for lunch every day because that's all I could afford. Now after open heart surgery, I wish I had skipped lunch. Hopefully, when you are as old as I am, your finances will provide a larger variety of choices. I carry a Kel-Tec by choice.

 

[Tomfoolery]

@ the OP. TBH bud you're going to get snobs wherever you go, fanboys will abound in anything. I worked part time in a comic shop for years...it's ridiculous. I was even one for a loooong time because every single silver and bronze age DC I had was in a flawlessly mint state which is no easy feat.

Take a census here about what gun people would want in a SHTF senario and invariably someone is going to open their pie hole about someone else's choice.... like their opinion matters.

I run Rock Island & Metro Amrs 1911s, Glocks, Kalashnikovs, Mosins, SKSs, PSLs and I have no issue with other peoples issues about my guns. They don't count, they aren't important, they are random weirdos on the internet who think to highly of their own opinion and are willing to hand it out freely because there is probably a lack of respect for that opinion in RL... just saying.

I know a guy who owns not just one but 2 Purdee shotguns and his day to day shooter is a Mossberg...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

When I was 19, the only car I could afford was a beat up AMC. The thing was a piece of crap, but I loved driving it. "What you can afford" is not the same as "what is reliable", your personal feelings on the item in question notwithstanding. If you like the low-cost gun, then that's great and everyone else can get bent. But that doesn't necessarily make it a well-manufactured or reliable gun. Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks about your gun. It's not a contest and you're just going to give yourself a complex.

This.

However people who point out that there are better guns aren't "snobs", they are truth tellers. I don't say Glock makes a better gun than Hi-point to hurt your feelings, I say it because its objectively true. I don't say Ravens are junk because they are pot metal and have a huge rate of frame failure to hurt your feelings, I say it because its true. Just because you can't afford one doesn't mean I have to save your self-esteem and pretend all guns are equal.

On the other hand, I've frequently pointed out that there is a point of diminishing returns. I wouldn't pay for a Wilson Combat 1911. Is it better than a Springfield Loaded? Yes, it is. Is it better in anyway that matters to me as a carry gun, and is it $2000 better? No, not for me.

 

[jcwit]

Not certain if the OP is still reading this thread and kinda' hate to be the a-hole here (well, my wife says I do it too often for me to actually "hate" it) but if I were still in a situation like yours I would avoid the .45 carry gun for a little while, and even then I might avoid the Hi-Point in favor of a used Ruger P90 or similar <$400 pistol.

My first and foremost reason is the cost of ammo. Right now, .45acp FMJ is running $25-30/50rds when you can find it and even 6 months ago it was often $16-20/50rds. Carry ammo can often run $0.75-$1.00/rd at local stores, although can be had for much less once you can buy in bulk online. Considering that most folks (snobs or not) would suggest a minimum of 3-400 trouble-free rounds before you start carrying the gun. Additionally, most folks would also suggest you make certain the gun likes you carry ammo by running at least 30-100rds through it. (In honesty, these round counts would be on the low side for me and many of the users on the forum, but they represent the lowest range I have heard over the last few years.)

If I go with 250rds of FMJ + 50rds of HP, I end up looking at roughly $165 on the lower end just to get the pistol ready for carry. Add $50-100 for accessories (carry holster, spare mag, etc) plus a couple hundred for the pistol and you have a significant investment. From your original post, that $4-600 will create quite a pinch in the budget.

As for the Ruger (or similar manufacturer) suggestion, the way I look at it Hi-Point has earned a solid reputation as a baseline handgun manufacturer but with some questions as to the durability of their designs. A new or used Ruger, on the other hand, can still be had for <$450 (I saw a P90 earlier this year for $400 w/ 200rds of HP and Bud's last had them listed new for $443, for example.) In the scope of the purchase, I would much rather spend the extra $150-250 a Ruger or similar manufacturer knowing that the extra money is not that large of a difference in costs over the first year ($850 at the high end vs $600 on the Hi-Point) while the return would be knowing that have a pistol which has earned high marks for durability over the years.

FWIW, my first pistol was a Ruger MKII that took all I could scrape together to purchase, but that pistol is still with me and still shoots well 1000s (10,000s ?) of rounds later and is the pistol I used to get my wife comfortable shooting.

As you already have a handgun that is serving you well, I would suggest you save a little longer until you find the right Bersa, Ruger, CZ, Springfield, S&W, Taurus (?), EAA (?), etc that fits your budget.

Are you implying my cast lead reloads are not reliable?

 

[Tomfoolery]

But objective reality is subjective entirely by the individual BBIs. My friend swears by his Hi-Point. You couldn't pry that gun from his cold dead hands with a crowbar. As far as I know it has never failed and he handles it very well. Individual subjective opinion will always outweigh actual objective facts to the end user consumer.

 

[DanVoils]

Hello INGOers.I have to rant about something because it is starting to bug me.First,I'll give some background on myself for those of you who don't visit my profile and maybe you can then understand where I'm coming from.

I am nineteen years old with a wife and infant son.I work nights as a custodian for $10.78 per hour and no benefits.I have two car payments per month along with various other bills.We literally live from paycheck to paycheck sometimes.My very first firearm that i could call "mine" was acquired at age eighteen and was a Cobra .32 semi auto.I had to save up for almost two months to get the $125 for my lifetime LTCH.

Now for the rant...

I am getting tired of reading posts from people being gun snobs.It seems like every time I jump on INGO,I run across a post saying that (insert name of any "affordable" firearm)s are junk.It used to make me feel inferior,now it just makes me angry because people such as myself are getting advice that they have to pay high prices for any good guns.Am I wrong for loving my Kel Tec,DPMS,Maverick,or my Remington?These guns were what I could come by and they all go bang every time that I pull the trigger.I'm now looking for an affordable .45 for carry and my best option,money wise,looks to be a Hi Point due to my financial situation.I have heard stories of Hi Points,Kel Tecs, and other lower-priced guns being junk.I have had great experiences with these "undesireable" guns.I've also heard horror stories about the almighty Glock but I still wouldn't mind having one.My own belief is this:a Hi Point in hand is better than a Kimber on the "SAVE FOR" list.Why do people have to talk so much crap about good guns just because they don't set you back $1000 when you get one?

Bring on the gun snobs...I wouldn't mind some friendly discussion either.

Stay away from ar15.com. They are the worst I've ever seen. Most of the snobs I've seen have no skills just bad attitudes about their poor abilities.
Buy what you want when you can. Protect your family. I was also married at 19 and had my first son when I was 20. I carried a S&W Model 10 .38 Special. It's all I could afford but it never failed me once.
Ignore the idiots and *******s and you're life will be much better.

 

[CQB]

Hey, you shoot what you can afford. I'm just glad you're pro 2A. As for the snobbery, it's not gonna go away. It's called life. Don't let it bother you. You will find that even the so-called snobs are generally great people here on INGUN and that the vast majority of members aren't buying $2500 guns on a monthly basis. There will be lovers and haters of EVERY firearm ever produced. We all started with what we could afford (including the snobs) and continue to work hard for what we have. As long as YOU trust that YOUR gun will serve its purpose, that's all that matters.

 

[JettaKnight]

The word "proud" is being thrown around in this thread a fair bit. Its a gun. A tool. A means to an end. Why do we need to be proud of it? If it accomplishes the desired task, what does it matter? I don't typically feel pride over my possessions, but maybe over my accomplishments and skills.

For some of us, our firearms are a product of our gunsmithing skills.


And now, my .
I'll say there's nothing wrong with buying a cheap gun. However, make it a good one. There's a reason the Jimenez and Cobras show up at gun buy backs. If you need a sub $300 gun then go with Soviet milsurp because there's still plenty of value in that market and you get a gun that's made to last.

 

[Fletch]

I started with a Hi-Point. I bought something better as soon as I could afford it. It's not a bad gun, but it's not a good one either.

IMO, OP is both right and wrong: a cheap gun you can afford is better than the "good" gun you can't. But you don't need a dozen cheap guns. One or two to start is cool, if it's what you can afford, but then do yourself a favor and save for something better -- a S&W, a Glock, a Springfield, whatever floats your boat.

Also, get the cars paid off as fast as possible and don't get any more car payments. 1 month of car payments is a "good" gun. 2 months is pretty much any production gun you want.

 

[Jackson]

For some of us, our firearms are a product of our gunsmithing skills.

Well, that would be a different circumstance altogether.

 

[Tomfoolery]

If you need a sub $300 gun then go with Soviet milsurp because there's still plenty of value in that market and you get a gun that's made to last.

I rep you sir!

Makarovs are exceedingly good pistols for the money. The haters may come out and how their true colors but I challenge anyone here who has never shot a Mak to buy one and a box of 50 9x18 and see if you don't enjoy the experience.

They are rock solid, dead reliable little guns and will outlive every single one of us. If you're a fan of older style cold war era steel frame handguns YOU WILL fall in love with a Makarov!

 

[bwframe]

To the OP; Got a couple bits of advice for you, that you may or may not like.

First of all flip that DPMS and accessories right now while the values are high. Use the funds to get a Glock or M&P, GOOD carry gear and ammo.

Second, forget the .45acp for now. 9mm is adequate for SD and much more affordable to shoot. So do this, shoot it a lot.

Third, listen to the smart folks suggesting training. Try not to be so focused on hardware, yet buy well proven brands of gear.

Your handgun is THE GUN that you will always have. Your focus should be on it. Master it, then move on to the long guns. The Maverick will serve your very seldom needs for a long gun.

 

[88E30M50]

OP: Like guns, people come in a variety of different shapes and sizes. Also, like guns, people can be useful or not. Everybody has their own opinion and it is usually based on personal experience and how smart they are. I hear what you are saying and do have to admit that sometimes it does get old hearing from some how you are an idiot if you don't spend at least a grand on your gun. James Yeager has railed against compact 1911s because they tend to have issues completing a 500 round class without cleaning or lube. He is one that feels only a custom tuned 1911 is worth carrying if you want to carry a 1911. Is he right? In his mind, he thinks he is, but he forgets that there are many different perspectives to be learned from. His world is one where there is only one type of gunfight to prepare for. But, that is based on his experience and is what he knows. He's coming from the point of view of a relatively young, physically fit person that has worked in a hostile environment. He is not coming from the perspective of a 50 year old software engineer that is not as fit as he should be.

My point is, most opinions have some merit if you can understand the experience of the person that is offering them. You don't have to agree with them, but if you understand what may have formed them, they can still be of value. The value of a firearm when carried for self defense is only realized when it is put to use and performs the job it's designed to perform. The cost does not determine the penetration of a bullet, but it can impact where that bullet hits or if it fires. Right now, we are lucky to be in a world that offers fantastic guns at all price points, but there are differences in the guns.

JBlomenberg's post was spot on in that you will see those differences over time as you figure out what you like and what you don't in future gun purchases. Most of us started at the bottom of the price point and many of us are still sticking with the lower priced guns. My first .380 was a Bersa Thunder 380 that I paid right around $200 for used. It was a great gun and worked well, but I wanted on in stainless (I like stainless) and there is no such thing. Eventually I bought a PPK in stainless for over twice the money spent on the Bersa. That gun has been the most troublesome gun I've ever owned. It works well now, but it took a long time and some work to get it to do what the $200 Bersa did out of the box. The point is that more money did not equate to a better gun.

My first 9mm was a Bersa Thunder 9UC. I was convinced this was the greatest gun ever created (aside from the 1911) and that the world would soon hold this gun up as the next great handgun. I think I paid $350 for it and it truly was a great gun. But, I ended up buying a CZ 75 and found that I shot it much better than I did the Bersa. There were a lot of little things about the CZ that made me realize the Bersa, while a great gun, is not the greatest of guns.

Everyone is proud of their favorite gun and want to share what they like about it. That's especially true if the gun is something they've worked for years to obtain. It's only natural that they gush about their favorite. Gun failures during torture tests can be misleading and often are used to justify high dollar guns. Most mid priced guns on the market today will function flawlessly if tested realistically. If you shoot 25 rounds, then clean and lube a gun and repeat, it will take a long time to get a failure as long as the springs are changed when they should be. That type of test would reflect real world usage more than a 1000 round torture test does.

In the end, shoot whatever you have and maintain it well.

 

[HoughMade]

Someone is always going to have a better gun than you.

You buy a M&P. Someone else will have a better gun, a Glock....

...and then every once in while, you will run into someone with such blind brand loyalty that their opinions lack all reason and are divorced from objective reality.

 

[ModernGunner]

..."Am I wrong for loving my Kel Tec, DPMS, Maverick, or my Remington?"...

No, you are not 'wrong'. Just for one example, I know more than just a handful of LEO's, and many non-LEO's, that carry a Kel-Tec. Despite claims to the contrary, I do not know of ONE of those people who have a) claimed Kel-Tecs are 'junk' or 2) have had a problem with their weapon. None. The Remington shotgun is a mainstay in law enforcement (particularly the 870).

Is it true SOME Kel-Tecs may have had issues? Yes. Is it true SOME Remingtons have had issues? Yes. Is it true SOME Colt 1911's, Kimbers, etc., etc., etc. have had issues. YES.

There are SOME people that don't like Hi-Points because they're 'ugly' (I don't think they're 'pretty', either, LOL), they're bulky, and a bit 'clunky'. Yet, MANY Hi-Point owners swear by 'em. I suspect that the nay-sayers have no personal experience with them, just espouse what they've seen on the 'almighty bible of gun reference'... YouTube.

Do *I* carry one? No, because they're "bulky, and a bit clunky", and I HAVE other options. Would I carry one? Yes, if that was my option. Would I have one at home in the nightstand or whatever? Unhesitatingly.

Would I unhesitatingly carry a Kel-Tec? Yep. Would I bet my life on that? Yep.

Buy what YOU like, what YOU feel confident with, and let ALL alternative opinions pass like farts in a breeze.

 

[searpinski]

Very few people start out with everything. There are expensive and inexpensive firearms. This applies to all facets of life--cars, homes, computers, stereos. Maybe your stereo doesn't sound good? Go find an online stereo forum and you'll learn that you can spend $20,000 easy on a home stereo. You need to learn to get over your misplaced anger and do something about the fact that there are things you want that you can't afford. Or better yet, get over it and work hard for whatever makes you and your family happy. Comparing yourself to others never ends well.