Gaping Hole In The Law

[NYFelon]

As most of you know, I am not a resident of the fine and apparently free state of Indiana. I am writing here to address an issue in my home State, The People's Democratic Republic of New York. Recently, there has been a modification to Environmental Conservation Law, which permits the use of airguns with muzzle velocities ≥ 600 fps for the taking of small game. It occurs to me that the language used for the modification creates a precarious situation for a person like myself. Naturally, as my name suggests I am prohibited by 18 USC 922(g) from possession of firearms. Similarly, I am prevented by State law from possessing firearms. However, the two laws seem to conflict and contradict one another.

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the
barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

Now, the modified NYS Conservation Law

For the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law and this Title:

(a) The terms "firearm" or "gun" shall mean any rifle, pistol, shotgun or muzzleloading firearm which by force of gunpowder, or an airgun as defined in subdivision (b), that expels a missile or projectile capable of killing, wounding or otherwise inflicting physical damage upon fish, wildlife or other animals.

(b) The term "airgun" shall mean any implement which by the force of a spring, air or other non-ignited compressed gas expels a missile or projectile and has a rifled or smooth barrel, using ammunition no smaller than .17 caliber, producing projectile velocities of not less than 600 feet per second. For the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law, an implement meeting the above specifications shall be considered a firearm or gun, and may be used to take protected wildlife whenever such protected wildlife may legally be taken with a rimfire rifle.

(c) The term taken down shall mean:

(1) separating the action from the barrel of a long gun which is designed to be dismantled without the use of tools; and

(2) rendering inoperable a long gun which is not designed to be dismantled without tools, so as to require tools to restore such long gun to an operable condition. A bolt action firearm with the bolt removed shall not be considered "taken down" unless it is otherwise dismantled as provided in this subdivision.

(d) "Pistol" means a firearm intended to be aimed and fired with one hand, and having a barrel length not exceeding sixteen inches.

It would seem these two laws are conflicting with one another, and the nebulous characterization of an air gun as a firearms for the purposes of hunting create a zone of danger. It is lawful in the state of NY for a convicted felon to own an air rifle. It is lawful in the state of NY for a person to use certain air rifles to hunt. There is no preclusion or prohibition on felons from attaining hunting licenses in the State of New York. However, the implements which are legal for taking small game are classified as firearms. So, does this create a de facto prohibition on felons from hunting with items they may lawfully possess since, by purpose of legislative language, they magically transform into firearms when used to hunt squirrel, raccoon, woodchuck, coyote or fox?

I see here an opportunity to return to the outdoors and engage legally in a shooting sport, but the waters in which I would find myself are murky to say the least. I have spoken with a NYS DEC officer, and he confirmed the legality of hunting with an air rifle. However, when presented with the question of whether it is lawful for a felon to do so, he was unable to answer. I imagine my only certain option is to consult an attorney. However, the law is so "new" that I don't know what if any advice they could offer, or its' veracity. Nor do I wish to be the test case for the legality of a felon hunting with a legal item which magically transforms into a firearm, and thus prohibited, when stepping into the woods with it.

I know, when in doubt, refrain. The issue is I fail to understand how two laws in the same state can be so patently contradictory to one another when taken in context with other pieces of legislation which are applicable.

A felon may own an airgun
It is lawful to hunt with an airgun
A felon is not prohibited from obtaining a hunting license
for the purposes of hunting, an airgun is a firearm
a felon may not own a firearm

Did NYS just divide by zero?

 

[RoyalTenenbaum]

I am not a lawyer. I am not qualified to give legal advice, so do take what I say with a grain of salt and nothing else.

It wouldn't be imprudent to request a legal opinion from the state Attorney General, your local US Attorney, and the US Attorney General.

 

[Kev]

... eyes went cross on that one...


So when you moving to Indiana??

 

[Clay]

doesn't really matter since he can't own firearms here either

 

[GBuck]

doesn't really matter since he can't own firearms here either

But he can own airsoft... I don't know what our law says about hunting small game with airsoft or if it is silent on the issue.

 

[NYFelon]

It's not about airsoft. Airsoft guns fire plastic projectiles typically at velocities of 300fps. This item would not be lawful for the taking of game. The taking of game with air rifles such as .177, or .22 caliber break barrel rifles is, provided they achieve the minimum velocity set forth in the statute. The issue is the legislative quicksand these two seemingly contradictory laws establish. It seems almost like a deliberate trap designed to ensnare persons once convicted of crimes wishing to avail themselves of a lawful sporting opportunity.

To RoyalTannenbaum: I think your idea of contacting the State Attorney is a good one. I'm not sure the U.S. Attorney's opinion would be relevant, as the Federal Government does not define air guns as firearms.

 

[trapperDave]

take up bowhunting

 

[rgrimm01]

take up bowhunting

+1 You can even hunt squirrels and birds with flu flus and blunt tips. Good luck with defending yourself against a pack of dogs though(must add that I have never been attacked by a pack of dogs...).

I have long ago lost the desire to watch something bleed to death at my feet when I am not in a position to have to feed myself or my family by what I can drag out of the woods. It became anticlimatic. I am not antihunter as I believe it is a neccessary tool in animal conservation and health of the herd.

I thoroughly enjoyed the hunt though. Something about being able to know what the animals were going to do and putting yourself in the right spot that insured a high quality shot...

I have given serious consideration to arming myself with a camera and hunting that way. I think my Lady would even like to go with me in that scenario. We always enjoy going on a drive down into the river bottoms and watching the deer and turkeys.

 

[Bert]

I stayed at a holiday inn and I don't even know how to approach that one .

 

[IndyGunner]

You can probably tell where I'm from by my avatar... glad to be the hell away from the left (at least as much as I can).

 

[NYFelon]

You can probably tell where I'm from by my avatar... glad to be the hell away from the left (at least as much as I can).

It's my understanding - only from what I have read here, as I have personally never been to your fine state - that Indy is somewhat left-leaning with respect to the rest of the state. Is this correct, or have I been reading wrong?

 

[GBuck]

It's my understanding - only from what I have read here, as I have personally never been to your fine state - that Indy is somewhat left-leaning with respect to the rest of the state. Is this correct, or have I been reading wrong?

Indy as a whole does not lean left. We have a district that is VERY left, but they are far from the majority. NWI is more left leaning, such as Gary, Crown Point, Hammond etc.

 

[NYFelon]

Proximity to Illinois no doubt infecting the love of liberty.

Apologies for my mistake.

 

[NYFelon]

Found the answer to my question...

Question: My friend is a convicted felon. Can a felon buy a hunting license and go hunting?
Answer: Yes, he/she may buy a license, but may only use a bow or an air rifle for hunting. The New York State Penal Law has been amended to prohibit a felon from possessing a rifle, shotgun, or a muzzleloader.

Took a bit of digging at the DEC site.

 

[remauto1187]

Petition the state to have your firearm rights restored. Its what i did...In Illinois 4 years after (1995) i was convicted of a Felony. If yours is a violent felony then you are most likely done. But all they can say is no. Then after some time of "being" good, apply for a governors pardon/expungement. Did not cost me anything but a postage stamp and I filled out all the paperwork myself. It took almost 6 years before i got a reply...of yes Granted. My record is now cleared.

 

[NYFelon]

There is no mechanism for expungement in NY. We have other legal remedies however. Mine is technically a violent felony, but it stems from a bar fight, 15 years ago.