Facebook, Appleseed & an AK47 at 700 yards.

[techres]

Appleseed has a Facebook presence for those of you who are Facebook junkies (I am an older luddite playing catchup on the whole "social networking" thing).

In any event some of our hipper Applseeders are on Facebook and you might find it interesting to see pictures and reviews from others. The active user is Project Appleseed (there is another one called RWVA that is not so active).

I went there today and caught this cool review of a guy using an AK47, from a sitting position, with a sling, taking shots at man sized targets 700 yards out:

hose annoying AK rifles. Crude iron sights. Short buttstock. Skinny “broomstick” pistol grip. Loud safety. Crappy trigger.

People ask “Why do you own a “evil” commie rifle?” I personally believe that rifles, like any tool, take on the personality of their users – good, bad or indifferent. I just like AKs. I like ‘em because they work (when built correctly) and are brutally rugged. I admit Red Dawn had an influence as well. I can trust it to go bang when I squeeze the trigger. They are spread worldwide and to me its good to know how to run one. (I do own a nice battle rifle, just in case you were wondering…)

I’ve always heard talk that the AK wasn’t good for anything farther than 200 yards away. Most “AK Training Classes” seem to focus on using AKs at pistol distances. I’ve pretty much agreed with that short-range limitation assessment, but I’ve often wondered what if that wasn’t true? What if - in a pinch – with Rifleman skills – it could do something more than it was expected to do? Thursday at the Davilla Texas 11/08 Appleseed Boot Camp I got an opportunity to find out…



Thursday, November 6, 2008. Davilla, TX DAR - late afternoon near dusk.

Shooter - SNAITF

Target - Army "D" silhouette "Dog Target".

Distance - 700 yards known distance

Rifle - 7.62x39 1977 Romanian "G" AKM kit from Cope's (when they had 'em) on a Global Trades $50 "blem" US receiver - built by me with the appropriate 922r compliance parts - my "trunk gun". Barrel is like new. Standard TAPCO single hook trigger group. Total cost to build was $250. "Battlefield Pickup" look. Rear iron sights cranked up to 600 meters. BSZ was set at 300 yards earlier in the day (prolly should have done some more math to make it meters - but I was in public and we all know public math is always ugly).

Match conditioning: I did remove the cleaning rod because I've heard that it can impart some level of vibration/harmonics on the barrel. Oh, I also removed the slanted muzzle brake (enough US compliance parts were on the rifle at the time it was fired for those concerned with such things – thank you).

Ammo - Barnaul (Monarch) 7.62x39 123 gr. FMJ bought the week before on sale at Academy. $.16 per round.

Position: Stage 2 Open Legged Sitting. I first tried a prone position but when prone there was a rise in the ground that obscured the targets. I like sitting anyway. Hammy, worn leather sling for support.

Number of rounds fired: 5 shots at "Rifleman's Cadence" (rapid).

Results: The rounds actually hit the D target I was aiming at. Four hits in the "3" scoring area – the fifth round is lost to eternity. 2 shots impacted on the lower left side of the target an inch apart from each other under the black portion of the silhouette. Two shots impacted on the right side of the target an inch apart from each other at the same level at the "V" - just outside the black The two groups were 24" apart = 3.42 MOA, excluding the 5th round of course.

Priceless: Knowing you can nail enemies 700 yards away with your beater, $250 AK "that's only good out to 200 yards" because of what you learned in the Appleseed Program.


Each bullet apparently destabilized from loss of energy at that distance and went through the target sideways aka keyholed. At least the bullet impacts were consistent - each bullet point outline in the target was pointing at 8 o'clock! They did penetrate the plywood backer and would definitely ruin an enemy's whole day if he were hit by one of those projectiles. 3 IIT witnesses signed my target record (I’ll add a pic of it soon - I couldn't keep the "Dog" target - they are large and expensive so we paste them up and re-use them). It was near dark and we had to paste up the target and get back to the line. My camera was about 700 yards away from the known distance range - I'd left it in the trunk of my car.


I almost chose not to shoot at that 700 yard distance. My AR was "having split personality issues" at the time - lower receiver assembly being used by one shooter, upper assembly with ACOG by another shooter. The AK was there in its case, but I had my doubts about it at that range. But there was ammo for it, there were magazines and the rifle was calling out “just give me a chance”. I could hardly discern the targets - but how often does a city boy get the opportunity to shoot at 700 yards? "I had to get it on!" I waited until one shooter was finished and took his spot at the very far right of the line so I could aim at the right edge of that long white blur 700 yards away. I couldn't even see the black area of the target. I took a SWAG at setting the rear sight elevation to 600 meters and I placed the focused, crude front sight post on the same blurry spot at the far right of the long white blur each time. Got my NPOA and went through the 6 steps of firing the shot at a rifleman’s cadence.

No one was more surprised at the results than me! (I did have "Lord of War" on while I was packing for boot camp. Maybe that was it. ) It may have been a one time fluke, but I look forward to the opportunity to attempt repeat the results in the future. Perhaps next I’ll go for a full known distance AQT with it next time. I’m even having thoughts about a Saiga .308 with a 21.5” barrel.

Appleseed – an equal opportunity rifle employer.

Go AK!



P.S. There are also pictures there too:

Check it out!

 

[4sarge]

Is there a Link to the FaceBook page ?

 

[techres]

Is there a Link to the FaceBook page ?

4Sarge will be playing the part of MR.Obvious today!

Facebook Appleseed Page Here

 

[4sarge]

4Sarge will be playing the part of MR.Obvious today!

Facebook Appleseed Page Here

Thank You, Kind Sir, er you dirty bum

 

[JByer323]

Cool, joined the Facebook group.

Thanks for the linkage.

 

[Clay]

very interesting!

what do you guys thing about an INGO facebook group?

 

[JByer323]

very interesting!

what do you guys thing about an INGO facebook group?

Sure.

 

[Clay]

Login | Facebook

there is a link to the INGunowners.com group

 

[smokingman]

Those are indeed good results for a Romanian Ak. Just imagine what he could do with a slr
Love my aks

 

[IUGradStudent]

Joined the facebook group.

 

[SilentWarrior1]

Joined.

 

[turnandshoot4]

I just joined the facebook group as well.

 

[ATM]

Joined both groups.

 

[indytechnerd]

Joined both groups.

ditto

 

[ATM]

bump for more on Facebook that might have missed it.

 

[USMC_0311]

I am little confused. The picture of the dog targets makes it really hard to believe. I have a little experience in long distance shooting and I just find those targets awful small. To even see them at 700 yrds is remarkable. My first impluse when I see the size of targets is to ask are these reduced distance targets to simulate distance? I am not saying it is impossible but those itty bitty targets and this quote "Perhaps next I’ll go for a full known distance AQT with it next time. " makes one wonder.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

To even see them at 700 yrds is remarkable. My first impluse when I see the size of targets is to ask are these reduced distance targets to simulate distance?

No doubt... makes me really skeptical.

If I seen it in person.. I wouldn't believe my own eyes.

That would be some world record AK shooting... for sure.

 

[SavageEagle]

Damn impressive for sure.

Either way, I no have no facebook. I have a Myspace that I never use. That's about it. LOL

 

[techres]

I am little confused. The picture of the dog targets makes it really hard to believe. I have a little experience in long distance shooting and I just find those targets awful small. To even see them at 700 yrds is remarkable. My first impluse when I see the size of targets is to ask are these reduced distance targets to simulate distance? I am not saying it is impossible but those itty bitty targets and this quote "Perhaps next I’ll go for a full known distance AQT with it next time. " makes one wonder.

AS uses shrunk targets at closer ranges. That is the AQT's you see. I assumed the AK was shooting at a full sized (man sized) target. And, yes, that would be tough as a 500 yard shot on 3x3 steel i pretty tiny - which is the same as what we teach with a 1" square at 25 yards (dang near dissappears on the front blade!).

Anyways, I saw some really amazing AK shooting at my first appleseed. If you consider a 4 MOA is 28" at 700 yards and some can even get their AK's down to 2.5 MOA which would be 17.5" at 700 yards, then what he describes is doable so long as you can gauge the drop on the 7.62x39 (how close to 7.62x51?) and have no wind to deal with.

Hard, but not unbelievable.

 

[USMC_0311]

AS uses shrunk targets at closer ranges. That is the AQT's you see. I assumed the AK was shooting at a full sized (man sized) target. And, yes, that would be tough as a 500 yard shot on 3x3 steel i pretty tiny - which is the same as what we teach with a 1" square at 25 yards (dang near dissappears on the front blade!).

Anyways, I saw some really amazing AK shooting at my first appleseed. If you consider a 4 MOA is 28" at 700 yards and some can even get their AK's down to 2.5 MOA which would be 17.5" at 700 yards, then what he describes is doable so long as you can gauge the drop on the 7.62x39 (how close to 7.62x51?) and have no wind to deal with.

Hard, but not unbelievable.

Still confused.
Help this old Marine out. Did he shoot the pictured targets at 700rds?

You said that it is the AQT I see. Do you mean the pictures?

I know the round will go that far (700 yrds) and that its really only matter of elevation so no it’s not unbelievable to hit a MAN sized target. The pictures are not man sized targets. Maybe hand size and at 700yds most can not see it. **** I hit a milk jug at 300 yrds with a 12 gauge slug after about 4 shots and holding it like a mortar. I just think this needs a little clarity, I guess to make me a true believer I need to see it for myself.

You want to see amazing shooting sit behind the 1000 yrd line during the National at Camp Perry this summer. Now days they are even using 5.56 that far, I am going to try it this year with an AR15. The rifle that you will not see there is the AK47. I am probably going to ruffle a few feathers by saying this but the AK47 is fine battle rifle, reliable, and scary as hell if you are the intended target. But I would not trust it past 300 yrds for that must make one shot one kill.

I have been thinking about going to an Appleseed event but I am not interested in reduced targets and any distance under 200yrds is a waste of my time. Not be arrogant but I like to play in the wind. Are all AS events on these short ranges? For me the real reason for wanting to go is to learn more about our history and the fellowship with patriots. Ok another reason is I want to show off a little too.