EAA Polymer Frame 1911, Sacrilege or Interesting?

[Chewie]

2014 Shot Show: EAA announces a polymer framed 1911 estimated MSRP is about $600, not sure exactly how I feel about this. Lots of other plastic guns out there but a 1911?
What does the INGO world think?

 

[SpaldingPM]

Its pure blasphemy!

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Imagine if JMB had done his design work 100 years later...

 

[SkinNFluff]

It's about time they update that relic.

 

[downlinx]

$600 for a poly 1911, sorry but NO. I will pay $529 for the the tisas A1 1911 before i would buy a poly for $600

 

[88E30M50]

I wonder if they will have issues with these down the road. Polymers are fantastic materials for gun frames, but only when the gun frame is designed around the material being used. To copy the design of a frame that was originally designed to be build out of carbon steel seems to be risky. Sometimes it works, but others not so much. I'm thinking of the CZ Rami P2075 that had issues with frames bulging and cracking. CZs answer was to replace them with aluminum framed guns. The 1911 frame is pretty slim when compared to most poly guns of the same caliber.

Aside from the risk, I don't know that I'd buy one as I see it less as a true 1911 but more as an imitation designed to mimic the look of a 1911. The Umarex 22s in a 1911 style are really not true 1911s and neither is a Sig P238. Both give the feel for a 1911 though and depart from being a true 1911 for good reasons. With the 22LR versions it's to be able to function with the low power available from the round where as with the P238, it departs from being a 1911 to allow it to shrink in size enough to be pocket carried.

Maybe I'm wrong and they'll sell a ton of them, but for me, I'd be worried about full power 45 loads being shot in that very thin 1911 poly frame. Just conjecture though, as I have not seen even so much as a photo of what they are talking about.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

All y'all are just about completely dismissing the strides in polymer engineering and design.

Aesthetics and "trueness" aside.... Seriously. Imagine that, before now, there wasn't such a thing as a 1911 pistol - and that JMB were alive today and designing. Using modern materials and engineering. Chances are good that he'd use polymer.

Perhaps even CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer) - which is a whole other ballgame from glass-filled polymer - which is a whole other ballgame than just some kind of injection molded crap.

Of course - chances are equally as good that the single-stack "1911" wouldn't be designed at all due to the same modern materials and engineering - but I digress.

 

[churchmouse]

All y'all are just about completely dismissing the strides in polymer engineering and design.

Aesthetics and "trueness" aside.... Seriously. Imagine that, before now, there wasn't such a thing as a 1911 pistol - and that JMB were alive today and designing. Using modern materials and engineering. Chances are good that he'd use polymer.

Perhaps even CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer) - which is a whole other ballgame from glass-filled polymer - which is a whole other ballgame than just some kind of injection molded crap.

Of course - chances are equally as good that the single-stack "1911" wouldn't be designed at all due to the same modern materials and engineering - but I digress.

All very true. The same could be said for the Harley and any thing else that has stayed around from that era. All have seen improvements. I do not see this as an improvement.
Consider this....The slide running on steel rails embedded in the polymer. I see this as a weak point but only time will tell. Is this design +P capable??
You know I am old school straight up. New things are for those who see the cool factor in the new designs. Not against change just sometimes it is not worth the effort to adjust.
I will stay with steel. I gave my H&K USP to the SIL as it just did not feel right in my hand. Great gun and all. Neat design, ran perfectly and drilled the target when the shooter did his part. The issue with it was the Polymers made my hand break out in a rash......
Plastic is fantastic but steel is for real.
Stop screwing with the platform. You want plastic, buy a (Ugh) Glock or one of the many other great plastic designs.
All hail JMB...........

 

[1988-4551]

I'm just curious if this becomes commonplace what will separate us from the glock fanboys?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I'm just curious if this becomes commonplace what will separate us from the glock fanboys?

Nothing but frame of reference!

Man - I sure long for the days of solid rubber tires, wooden wheels, crank starts, and open air cockpits on the horseless carriages!

 

[Birds Away]

Guns benefit from a little weight. It adds stability to the shooting platform. Everyone seems to think that making a gun out of polymer is an "improvement", not necessarily. Even the alloy frame 1911s shooting characteristics suffer somewhat from the reduced weight. I agree with Churchmouse. If you want a Glock, buy a Glock. Quit fixing what isn't broken.

 

[88E30M50]

All y'all are just about completely dismissing the strides in polymer engineering and design.

Aesthetics and "trueness" aside.... Seriously. Imagine that, before now, there wasn't such a thing as a 1911 pistol - and that JMB were alive today and designing. Using modern materials and engineering. Chances are good that he'd use polymer.

Perhaps even CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer) - which is a whole other ballgame from glass-filled polymer - which is a whole other ballgame than just some kind of injection molded crap.

Of course - chances are equally as good that the single-stack "1911" wouldn't be designed at all due to the same modern materials and engineering - but I digress.

My point was simply that if JMB were around today (or better yet, today's polymers were around then) and if he did design the 1911 using polymers, it would most likely not have the same dimensions that the 1911 does. The frame would probably be wider to carry the load differently due to different materials. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but am just pointing out that doing so would bring risks if the dimensions were held to the same of today's 1911s. If dimensions are not the same, then it's just another 1911 shaped gun and not a 1911.

Another thing to consider is that a 1911 has areas that are critical dimensionally. A few thousandths off on the location of the slide stop pin and you may have a gun that will not be reliable. My experience with my poly guns is that they are built loose. Will they be able to engineer a poly frame that will hold those dimensions over time? A Glock is designed to work in a way that makes that less important. There can be all kinds of slop in the fit of parts, but as long as they all come together in a consistent location when in battery, it will be accurate. The 1911 is dependent on a bit more precision to function. Sure, there are loose 1911s around, but not in the critical areas.

It will be interesting to see how EAA got through these issues.

 

[88E30M50]

Guns benefit from a little weight. It adds stability to the shooting platform. Everyone seems to think that making a gun out of polymer is an "improvement", not necessarily. Even the alloy frame 1911s shooting characteristics suffer somewhat from the reduced weight. I agree with Churchmouse. If you want a Glock, buy a Glock. Quit fixing what isn't broken.

I'm guessing that EAA is trying the polymer route based on the production costs and not any improvement in the end result. Lots of machine work goes into a reliable 1911. Polymer guns tend to have much less machine work and should sell for much less money. I'm thinking this is just an attempt to capitalize on the popularity of the 1911 without the full costs of building a 1911.

 

[joe138]

Didn't Rock River announce a poly 1911 a couple years ago? I don't think they were ever produced.

 

[halfmileharry]

Being a unique design I would think some of the polymer components may have issues. Barrel Link for one comes to mind.
I've been wondering lately about the MIM metal vs composite plastic parts.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Didn't Rock River announce a poly 1911 a couple years ago? I don't think they were ever produced.

Yeah, and I vaguely remember people belly aching about that too. Yet, I have yet to see them. They still say 'to be determined' on their website. They haven't hammered it out yet, but somehow EAA did? Plot thickens.

Being a unique design I would think some of the polymer components may have issues. Barrel Link for one comes to mind.
I've been wondering lately about the MIM metal vs composite plastic parts.

I'm not sure they are making load bearing parts like links out of poly. Working my 40 hours a week as a plastics "guy", I can say that sometimes plastic can outperform metals in certain areas. High impact, high shear and other areas where metal dominates, still dominates. That being said, polymer/plastic is just like MIM: You can have "good" mim and you can have "bad" mim, exact same with plastic. Glocks/Kahr/S&W/etc... have great strides in poly tech for firearms. They have made pistols lighter and practically corrosion proof, while maintaining a solid dependable service record and longevity.

They have also made firearms more affordable: Let's look at manufacturers that still make guns of forged steel, IN the US. Expensive suckers aren't they? Oh, sure, you can get a Ruger P series but I think the've even dropped making their frames out of metal. There's a reason Sigs and such cost alot: Hint, it's not their "attention to detail", it's the milling of the frame (though their attention to detail is pretty decent ). If Smith were to make the 4506/1006/5906 again, I would imagine the cost would be north of $700 due to higher wages, increased machining compared to poly frames and material costs compared to yesteryear. This is why MIM and poly rule in today's modern manufacturing: Mim requires minimal if any machining, just put into gun and go. Poly requires a little trimming which can be done on a CNC machine in a matter of seconds, faster than the worker can place parts (assuming they haven't automated the placement process like some makers), plus they can do a wide variety of colors without painting/coating/anodizing. All adds up to MUCH less cost that they pass onto consumers. When I hear about someone complaining about how So and So's Arms Model 01 price going up 10 percent, I think about how much it would cost if we didn't have modern manufacturing methods to do so.

Now, to be "that guy": I would imagine that all the people with STI and similar race guns that are 1911 pattern and use lots of poly in the fram haven't had too much issue. Then again, this is EAA. They can either screw it up royally or do it decently, but I cannot see them being revolutionary or remarkable in this regard. RRA hasn't released theirs, there has to be a reason. Why is EAA suddenly able to? I'm envisioning poor quality paperweights in their future with alot of people mad about the lack of service EAA furnishes.

 

[Bigtanker]

Didn't Rock River announce a poly 1911 a couple years ago? I don't think they were ever produced.

They announced it in 2012. In 2013 gun writers had samples to test and write about but I can't find one for sale. I didn't look all that hard though.

 

[SERparacord]

Belongs in the same category as MIM parts, increases the profit margin, not the quality.

 

[redwingshooter]

If it ain't steel or some sort of alloy then it's just Tupperware....a 1911 is not Tupperware! Kidding aside, I think Disposable Heart pretty much summed it up better than I ever could. It would be interesting if they got it to work but if I want a 45 option in a polymer frame there are better options IMHO.

 

[sparkyfender]

I thought the Rock River model looked interesting.

At least, the photos I saw looked interesting. I've never seen one in the flesh.