Do "Conservatives" Really Want What They Are Getting?

[printcraft]

I get the impression that JH's opinions about 'conservatives' are similar to the Denis Leary song '***hole'

...I'm just a regular Joe with a regular job
I'm your average white, suburbanite slob
I like football and porno and books about war
I got an average house with a nice hardwood floor
My wife and my job, my kids and my car
My feet on my table and a Cuban cigar...etc

Sometimes that's not enough to keep a guy like JH interested,
he's got to go out and have fun at someone else's expense...

 

[JettaKnight]

I bet if you detached any democrat names from the policies and then polled them, the results would invert.

Especially true with immigrants who align with republicans on almost every issue - except immigration.

 

[scatterj]

Long time lurker, first time posting. You can be unkind if you wish.

The pro-life / pro-choice argument alway fascinates me. While I don't think this really comes down party lines, it has become such a hotbed topic.

Conservatives have no problem saying your rights end where my nose begins. However, they are also the first to pass a law they feel is universally morally just.

Liberals on the other hand have no problem saying that we must do for someone else if we are more fortunate then them which is a common theme in almost all religious text that most (not all) conservative live by. Libs usually mess up the execution, and most of the time make things worse.

I just think it's funny that if you are in the moral right ( nevermind the old testament speaks of life at first breath) you should teach you beliefs and let the generations decide. If you are right, even though something may be legal, most won't get an abortion because of the moral implications.

The problem as always are politicians who weaponize the discussion for votes and money, while we as the people make more and more polarizing statement unable to see the other side of the coin to understand where the other is coming from.

We as a people should still do that.

As a man, I dont think that I have the ability to make decision based on women's anatomy.

However, I feel it's usually wrong and would try to talk my adult daughter out of it. But, if my 10 year old daughter became pregnant a pedophile, I think (I've never been in that situation) I would have the abortion. The trauma of the event and reminder maybe too much for a 10 yo.

What I want is the right to make that moral choice

 

[Cork74]

I decline to become involved in the post , other than ; each person is entitled to their own opinion ...

 

[bwframe]

I have found that when pressed, people that think they are hearing the answer they want from a D candidate, would never run their own checkbook that way. Most of them are just jealous. Definitely R when it comes to their own checkbook.

I strongly disagree with you on your take on libertarians. You obviously haven’t studied them much. Libertarians are much to liberty minded to have any room for rino’s. And they’re not middle of the road d’s either.
Libertarians aren’t the party of orphans, they are the party of independent thinkers.

The Rise of the ‘Liberaltarian’

www.gsb.stanford.edu

 

[BehindBlueI's]

While I don't think this really comes down party lines, it has become such a hotbed topic.

Keeping you worked up and voting on "morals" keeps you from looking to close at the economics. Politicians and the hyper-political love social issues and will use them to convince you to vote against your other interests.

 

[Leadeye]

Never listen to what leadership is saying, watch what their hand is doing, it's usually picking your pocket.

 

[NKBJ]

So, do conservatives like what they're getting?
Are the mark and beast system conservative?

 

[buckwacker]

Keeping you worked up and voting on "morals" keeps you from looking to close at the economics. Politicians and the hyper-political love social issues and will use them to convince you to vote against your other interests.

We can't ignore morals or we might find ourselves accepting things like chattel slavery or ethnic cleansing. I see the issue of abortion in those terms. We've justified taking the lives of the innocent as a matter of convenience (in the vast majority of cases) by first removing their humanity. It's barbarism. Moral and economic issues don't have to be mutually exclusive; I think we can walk and chew gum simultaneously. At least most of us.

 

[AlVine]

Warnings for 40 years about global warming/climate change,

11 of the worst recorded wild fires in the past 5 years.
Bigger, and more frequent tropical storms & hurricanes.
More and bigger tornados.

11% reduction in food supply because previously productive land is now unusable due to droughts.

Is this what they wanted?

.............

Texas passes anti-abortion ban in 72 hours with no public debates.
6 weeks, no exceptions for rape, incest, medical exemption for mother's life...

Allows for $10,000 bounties for anyone that snitches out the person that got the abortion, any health care provider that participates in the abortion,
But also anyone that knew about or supported the abortion, like vehicle drivers, family members, friends, etc.

As written, it doesn't exempt out of state abortions, the law as written is blanket for all Texas residents...

Is that what the 'Conservatives' wanted, laws railroaded through legislative bodies when they admit they know full well it's unconstitutional?

What happens when the "Conservatives" go full Taliban?
Or I guess in this case it would be full Inquisition?

.................

They "Say" they want the government to stay out of their lives,
But now they voted to rule bedroom activity, and be in the doctor's office with them...
Did that cross anyone's mind?

Someone has to pay for the climate change issues,
Relief after floods, hurricanes, tornados, wild fires, etc.
All the while screaming taxes are too high.

Where is the money going to come from?

............

I'm seriously interested in this...
I've been around a while a seen some pretty strange things done.

Is this the nuclear option for 'Conservatives'?
Why now? (Trump, loss of seats, fear/confusion/anger) what is the motivation?
Is this a distraction for something else going on?

I guess if I live long enough, it will all come out in the wash later on, just wondering why now...

Loaded question. This isn't what anyone wants, it's also a hyperbolic misrepresentation of current events.

Wildfires, tornadoes, tropical storms and hurricanes are caused/fueled by many factors, of which warming temperatures are only one. How much impact man can have on these is still being debated. Global hunger has been declining for years, it has ticked upward recently because of Covid disruptions, but that's temporary.

There's no 'bounty' for snitching, the law allows people to sue abortion providers and anyone who helps in obtaining an abortion. Conservatives do not admit the law is unconstitutional, and it can hardly be said to have been 'railroaded' through when it was signed into law in May after weeks of debate. Since then there have been several lawsuits and much arguing.

The Texas law forces Texans to go out of state for abortions, not prevent them from doing so. No state law can prevent a person from doing whatever they want in another state. The government isn't even involved in enforcing the law, that's up to private citizens. Personally, I don't think that's a good idea, but I'm not a Texan.

Saying conservatives voted to rule bedroom activity and comparing them to the Taliban and an inquisition undermines your position. There are legitimate arguments to be made against the Texas law, ad hominems aren't necessary.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

... Moral and economic issues don't have to be mutually exclusive; I think we can walk and chew gum simultaneously. At least most of us.

It's not a matter of walking and chewing gum, it's a matter of a political party is a fixed menu vs a cafeteria and we have exactly two menu options. If I abortion access is my hot button issue, I'm pulling the D lever regardless of their stance on anything else, right? There are a lot of people here on INGO who say they are a single issue voter in regards to gun rights. They are going to pull the R lever regardless of what else comes in that package. So if I get you on my side on social issues and get you to weight them higher, I can put whatever else I want in the package for things you value less and you'll still pull my lever. That's simplified, obviously, but that's the distilled version of how our 2 party system works and there is currently no viable 3rd option.

 

[buckwacker]

It's not a matter of walking and chewing gum, it's a matter of a political party is a fixed menu vs a cafeteria and we have exactly two menu options. If I abortion access is my hot button issue, I'm pulling the D lever regardless of their stance on anything else, right? There are a lot of people here on INGO who say they are a single issue voter in regards to gun rights. They are going to pull the R lever regardless of what else comes in that package. So if I get you on my side on social issues and get you to weight them higher, I can put whatever else I want in the package for things you value less and you'll still pull my lever. That's simplified, obviously, but that's the distilled version of how our 2 party system works and there is currently no viable 3rd option.

I understand where you're coming from, and virtually no one will find a candidate they agree with 100% of the time unless they personally run. I think my point about abortion gets a bit glossed over in your assessment of our two party system. Some positions are so egregious that they would preclude many from voting for a candidate espousing them regardless of how well the remainder of said candidates positions aligned to their political ideology. For example, if a candidate held every policy position that a person believed in, but believed Jews should be exterminated, would we be so flippant as to say that I voted for them anyway because we're so aligned on economic issues. That would be unforgivable, and that is how many see the abortion issue. There should never be an excuse to take away another's humanity in order to treat them how we wish. We did that 150-200 years ago and it was a catalyst for a bloody civil war.

 

[Bugzilla]

I can find scientists that debunk climate change/global warming.
It will do no good because we all have made or camps and we're not moving from them no matter what.
I can say your scientists are crazy and you can say mine our. That's what everything boils down too.
So in light of that threads like this depend on one's political views, and the scientists you find to back your views. Then when confronted with equally as intelligent scientists that debunk global warming/climate change or are against your views/camp then they are crazy and no one should listen to them.

In the end we just build higher fences around our camps and there is no improvement.

This is why I said multiple times politics needs to be removed from science and education completely. Unless you take politics in college that's fine.

Except some scientists use facts and data while others use opinion and unproven hypotheses.

 

[bwframe]

... There are a lot of people here on INGO who say they are a single issue voter in regards to gun rights. They are going to pull the R lever regardless of what else comes in that package. ...

Without the Second Amendment, nothing else matters. Especially in these times, that should be totally obvious.

Give us a pro-2A party that can win and not throw away the vote and we'll all come. In the meantime, R is the only game in town.

Lot of us voted for that silly-assed libertarian party for governor. We are ready and waiting for your realistic better idea.

 

[JimmieG]

This is apolitical, it's personal interest in what's popped up this week and how people rationalize it.
Strictly curiosity based reaction to current events.

Do "Conservatives" Really Want What They Are Getting?​

Oh yeah, that's definitely apolitical. What a load of horse manure, from the the title on it was mean to lash out at conservatives, and goad them into your leftist mind-numbing debate.

I get that you're concerned about women not having the right to choose what they do with their own body, but who's speaking out to defend the millions babies murdered every year, who get absolutely no choice in the matter?

I'm not a troll, just calling a spade a spade.

 

[NKBJ]

Except some scientists use facts and data while others use opinion and unproven hypotheses.

 

[BugI02]

Long time lurker, first time posting. You can be unkind if you wish.

The pro-life / pro-choice argument alway fascinates me. While I don't think this really comes down party lines, it has become such a hotbed topic.

Conservatives have no problem saying your rights end where my nose begins. However, they are also the first to pass a law they feel is universally morally just.

Liberals on the other hand have no problem saying that we must do for someone else if we are more fortunate then them which is a common theme in almost all religious text that most (not all) conservative live by. Libs usually mess up the execution, and most of the time make things worse.

I just think it's funny that if you are in the moral right ( nevermind the old testament speaks of life at first breath) you should teach you beliefs and let the generations decide. If you are right, even though something may be legal, most won't get an abortion because of the moral implications.

The problem as always are politicians who weaponize the discussion for votes and money, while we as the people make more and more polarizing statement unable to see the other side of the coin to understand where the other is coming from.

We as a people should still do that.

As a man, I dont think that I have the ability to make decision based on women's anatomy.

However, I feel it's usually wrong and would try to talk my adult daughter out of it. But, if my 10 year old daughter became pregnant a pedophile, I think (I've never been in that situation) I would have the abortion. The trauma of the event and reminder maybe too much for a 10 yo.

What I want is the right to make that moral choice

I expect that you'll go right to the outlier you mentioned (the case of the pedophile and the 10 yo) but the reality is the moral choices should have been made much earlier in the process - specifically eschewing sex outside of a loving marriage

Abortion is not a form of birth control, it is the ending of a human life. Not only does that conservative believe your rights end where someone elses nose begins, they believe a gestating child is a someone and has a nose

 

[phylodog]

As far as abortion is concerned, I'd much rather the government subsidize the removal of the ability reproduce for those who wish to bump uglies without worrying about getting pregnant.

 

[Tombs]

Especially true with immigrants who align with republicans on almost every issue - except immigration.

Then why do the majority of immigrants vote democrat?

It isn't just because of immigration, lol.

 

[NKBJ]

Yeah, people who want to work hard and better themselves don't like Uncle Sam stealing from them whether they were born elsewhere or not.
People who want handouts... doesn't matter where they were born either.