Crew member killed when shot by prop gun on set of Baldwin movie

[indyartisan]

Let’s Go Baldwin!

 

[actaeon277]

Let’s Go Baldwin!

 

[cbhausen]

The answers to all of your questions have either been answered in this thread or in articles linked in this thread.

The only question I asked in my post was this:

Furthermore, why did Baldwin have to point the gun at crew members in the first place?

Someone, give me a valid reason. I’ll wait right here.

 

[actaeon277]

The only question I asked in my post was this:

Furthermore, why did Baldwin have to point the gun at crew members in the first place?

Someone, give me a valid reason. I’ll wait right here.

Arrogance and snobbery

 

[bwframe]

 

[Alpo]

The only question I asked in my post was this:

Furthermore, why did Baldwin have to point the gun at crew members in the first place?

Someone, give me a valid reason. I’ll wait right here.

The only thing I read on this point is that when they were framing the shot, there was a shadow in the frame, so the DP and D were moving the camera for the shot.

What happened in detail is what we don't know at this point. Speculation.

 

[actaeon277]

Too soon?

 

[JeepHammer]

So we have an anti-Trump tirade theory. And not one, but TWO, theories suggesting Baldwin is a skilled assassin who shot the lady because of a pedophile documentary OR her husband being involved in legal matters with the Clintons. I saw the JFK files are being delayed again, have we tied that in? Arizona is next to New Mexico, so maybe it had to do with Area 51?

Never attribute to malice or conspiracy what can be explained by simple neglect, incompatance or stupidity.

 

[churchmouse]

Never attribute to malice or conspiracy what can be explained by simple neglect, incompatance or stupidity.

Precisely

 

[Butch627]

The only question I asked in my post was this:

Furthermore, why did Baldwin have to point the gun at crew members in the first place?

Someone, give me a valid reason. I’ll wait right here.

Below is a copy and paste of an earlier post of mine, I tried to multi quote without success:
Way back in the thread someone quoted and linked a pretty detailed article about what happened. Reading it I instantly had a picture in my mind of how this played out and the following is based on that.
They were lining up a B camera shot, that means that A camera was in place and the actors position and motion were set in stone. They must have been delayed or a last minute change because otherwise it would have been set up with a stand in so this was last minute running late stuff. The B camera was sitting on a Dolly and the DP and director were looking through a monitor attached to his camera behind him trying to "find the shot" This was probably a tight POV shot looking directly at his face or the gun or even the draw. I don't know how that can be framed and not break any of the 4 rules. They had already done at least one rehearsal in this sequence with no fire. They may have already done more rehearsals or takes before deciding to refine the B camera position but that is just speculation.
So if they want to see a muzzle flash they would typically have blanks 1/8 or 1/4 loads. When filming they would put plexiglass in front of the camera and operator and in a perfect world the camera would be unmanned . During a take and under normal camera positioning the director and DP would be at the village looking through a much larger monitor. This was a new and probably inexperienced operator so they were probably trying to coach him better by being at his side, this is not the norm but done every day.
I repeat this could not be done following the normal outside rules of gun handling.
The person who was reported to have handed him the gun was not part of the usual chain and had no business touching the weapon or declaring it cold. There should have been someone at the table to keep him or anyone else not authorized to touch the guns. I think tension was high on that set and tempers were flaring. The armor and prop people clearly did not have the proper respect and authority their positions should command

End of copy and paste, todays post:


Since I posted that more information has been reported. What has been reported is that he was doing a cross draw so that would have sweeped quite a bit of territory. Also reported that the shot was supposed to be very tight and show rounds in the chamber. One of the linked vids in this thread is very informative on dummy rounds and how they are supposed to be identified and handled.
It is unknown if they were trying to have B camera follow the entire shot or just catch the tight shot of the chambered rounds.
Several guys here who I believe have never been on a film set seem to think these things can be accomplished without breaking any of the 4 rules. Instead of just saying that it can be done I would like them to explain how to educate all of us.

There have been a couple of vids linked in this thread which I think are excellent but neither mentioned these creative camera techniques that some here are familiar with. I hope someone can link some articles or videos explaining how that can be done if the authors don't want to do it themselves.

On a tangent away from the camera angles I read an article about the prop Department. It says there was a propmaster, armor, and a production assistant or PA involved with the firearms. Normally without firearms you would have a minimum of a propmaster who is not on the set doing administrative work, 1st prop assistant who is on the set, and a 2nd assistant who goes back and forth organizing things and assisting the other two. Add guns and you typically have an armor and an assistant. He is under the umbrella of the propmaster. In this they said there were a total of 3. Propmaster, armor, and a PA. They had a PA because they are not union and a are paid far less. PA is typically someone breaking into the business and would not have any firearm training or even prop training. Neither the propmaster, armor, or union should have allowed the PA to touch a weapon but in very low budget is is not uncommon for them to work in the prop dept. The Unions across the country should put a stop to that. So they were incredibly short handed and none of them were experienced or trained. This incident happened on day 21 of 25 so there had been plenty of time to make adjustments. That goes to the top, someone like the executive producer.

Executive Producer and 1st AD's compensation is tied to the films actual budget compared to its projected budget. Also if a Tier 1 goes past a pre determined budget number it goes to another Tier and most of the crew have to have their salary adjusted to the larger budget number including back pay. Then the budget really goes out of wack and heads roll. People on the hook for that include the 1st AD and Executive Producer.
I have worked quite a bit in the real world before and since getting in the film business. The film business is a world all of its own.

 

[Butch627]

The only thing I read on this point is that when they were framing the shot, there was a shadow in the frame, so the DP and D were moving the camera for the shot.

What happened in detail is what we don't know at this point. Speculation.

Typically that would be corrected by lighting adjustments.

 

[BugI02]

Hypothesis. No conspiracy.

I like stupid vs evil, however. The more we learn, the more moronic the armorer appears.

Odd, speculating that a disgruntled union member deliberately planted dangerous ordinance sounds like a bit more than a hypothesis


con·spir·a·cy the·o·ry
noun

a belief that some covert but influential individual or organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.

 

[nipprdog]

 

[LANShark42]

Mr. Anti gun using guns to make a living. Dont feel sorry for him. Do feel sorry for those otherwise affected however

Exactly. I have zero pity for this a$$hat.

 

[bwframe]

Lead pulled out of guy's shoulder...

500 "rounds" recovered from scene. Mix of banks, dummies and live...

 

[Leadeye]

News is now saying gun was a Pietta repro, almost have to be 45 Colt or 44-40. I'm still betting 45 Colt.

 

[Alpo]

Typically that would be corrected by lighting adjustments.

Typical is not what happened on this set.

 

[AtTheMurph]

 

[Sylvain]

Lead pulled out of guy's shoulder...

500 "rounds" recovered from scene. Mix of banks, dummies and live...

Probably all mixed and stored together in a large bucket.

 

[Mikey1911]

Typically that would be corrected by lighting adjustments.

Back to the cartridges - would they have been 5-in-1 or 3-in-1 blanks; and how much do those blank cartridges physically resemble live cartridges?

All guns are loaded - especially guns that someone else tells you are “unloaded”.