Considering a Pistol Caliber Carbine...which is best?

[WebSnyper]

I really like my MPX...It does, however, have a ton of upgrades to it but it works for me.

MPX is an awesome gun (Sig is on a roll lately with one homerun after another). A bit $$ for my range though.

as much as a sig fan boy as I am, I doubt i'd ever buy a mpx, not that theres any problem with them, they're just too damn expensive!

The MPX was high on my list after seeing them at the NRA convention here in Indy.
The price is definitely what pushed me in other directions and why I went with the FX-9 as my initial and very simple step into a PDW as I already owned Glock mags, etc. Overall the MPX seems like a slick gun and would be in my safe if cost wasn't a factor.

 

[IndyBeerman]

The 2 best moments of owning a sub2k are the thrill of the buy and the relief of making most of your money back.

They kick like a 12ga for some reason, the bolt eats facial hair, folded they are still only marginally smaller than a Beretta cx4 (excellent carbine), red dot mounting is a nightmare or you lose the ability to fold, once you pay to do all the mods you could have had a stribog and a case of 9mm. And they are notoriously unreliable under heavy use. you dont generally see one make it through a day of uspsa without at least 2 or 3 malfunctions.

Do yourself a favor and stay far away from the sub2k. I spent the money and tried to like it, really gave it a chance and it just lacked in every category except resale

I agree 100 percent on this. Also that fact that the locking mech on it is not the best. Too easy to fold up in stressful situations. I was lucky enough to sell my Sub2000 back when they came out to someone who was looking for one and did no lose anything on it. Only took 1-20 round box to figure out what a pos it was.

 

[venenoindy]

I gone through this myself, the couple I like Sig MPX and B&T are a lot of money (for me) and just couldn't justify spending that much. I was lucky to secure a Palmetto state armory AKV9 to seem to be a quality firearm at a decent price, it has all the features that I was looking for and quality magazines are very reasonable price and not to mention is half the price of the MCX and B&T.

 

[Haven]

I agree with those that said the CZ Scorpion. I have one, and I am looking at getting a second one, the one I bought it great, but I want a shorter one as well as the longer one.

 

[QBall]

By pistol caliber carbine do you mean, a pistol caliber, err, technically pistol, with a brace? This is confusing.
Someone needs to come up with a good term for these things. Maybe they could be MSPTWAB, you know, modern sporting pistol thing with a brace? Anyway, I digress.
I picked up a Diamondback DB9RP. Basically it's a 10 inch barrel AR pistol in 9mm with a Gearheadworks Tailhook brace, it takes Glock mags.
I went with an 9mm AR style pistol thing with a brace because I wanted to maintain consistent control layout and ergonomics between the MSPTWAB and my ARs as I viewed this as a great way to practice with an AR and spend a lot less on ammo.
I considered a PSA AR9 but decided to drop the extra $100 on the Diamondback because it has a last round bolt hold open.
On the whole I'm very pleased with the Diamondback. I've put a few hundred rounds through it and no issues, it feeds consistently, I haven't seen a jam yet. The shooting experience is remarkably like a 5.56 AR. Obviously the 9mm isn't nearly as powerful, but the heavy bolt assembly thumping back and forth gives a good approximation of the recoil of the 5.56. I like the Gearheadworks Tailhook mod 2 brace. The fit and finish of the DB9RP is good, Mine is in burnt bronze, with contrasting black hardware, which I think looks sharp. It comes with a Magpul MOE grip in black. I stuck a pair of Magpul BUIS and a Sig Romeo5 on it.
The only hangup is that it doesn't like Magpul brand magazines. Since Magpul mags aren't metal lined they are a little thicker through the body and shoulders of the magazine. The left hand shoulder of my magpul mags all impinge on the LRBHO bar and cause it to either engage prematurely, or jam in the upward position. It runs fine with stock Glock magazines as well as ProMags, and the KCIs, a 32 round ProMag comes with the DB9RP. If I had it to do over again I'd probably opt for a shorter barrel length, Diamondback makes an 7.5 as well as the 10. I haven't sat down and chronoed it yet but I don't think you gain significant velocity out of the 10.5 vs: a 7.5.
Overall I'm pleased with the gun and it's become one of my favorite fun guns.
Q

 

[QBall]

I gone through this myself, the couple I like Sig MPX and B&T are a lot of money (for me) and just couldn't justify spending that much. I was lucky to secure a Palmetto state armory AKV9 to seem to be a quality firearm at a decent price, it has all the features that I was looking for and quality magazines are very reasonable price and not to mention is half the price of the MCX and B&T.

I really like the AKV9s.

 

[WrightCo]

Since we're not making decisions based on cost alone, I think you should consider a .300BO as a "pistol caliber carbine". Sub-sonic ammo for shooting steel up close and hi-vel ammo for hunting and defense. All the same ergos as your fighting rifle and cheap to build. I have a QC 10 9mm pcc and a CMMG Banshee .45 pcc. Quarter Circle 10 makes great stuff...CMMG needs a little more quality control. They both are fun, but really just range toys. The LWRC .45 is calling out to me, but it just doesn't make sense. Good luck.

WrightCo out

 

[rtbeard]

How is the lockup of the CAA stock?

 

[Hohn]

Since we're not making decisions based on cost alone, I think you should consider a .300BO as a "pistol caliber carbine". Sub-sonic ammo for shooting steel up close and hi-vel ammo for hunting and defense. All the same ergos as your fighting rifle and cheap to build. I have a QC 10 9mm pcc and a CMMG Banshee .45 pcc. Quarter Circle 10 makes great stuff...CMMG needs a little more quality control. They both are fun, but really just range toys. The LWRC .45 is calling out to me, but it just doesn't make sense. Good luck.

WrightCo out

The topic of 300BO vs PCC is one I've pondered lately. I'm assuming that a big part of the equation is the ability to run subsonic ammo. A subsonic 300BO at 220gr or so is a bit more energy than a .45ACP. Plus it will preserve that energy down range a lot more than any .45.

Obviously, the ability to use the AR platform is a huge appeal to 300bo. But as you'd want to use it to compare it to a PCC--short barrel, subsonic, as compact as possible (think PDW), I wonder if you depart far enough from the basic AR parameters that it's not ideal. I think most folks know that 300 burns all the powder in 9" of barrel or so, and that all short 300blk barrels are pistol gas (as a many longer ones).

I've got no use for 300blk as a supersonic caliber, as there are simply better choices for that work in an AR.

I like the idea of a blowback vs DI for something I will likely suppress. Also a switchable gas block or BCG might be the easy fix to making 300blk run reliably suppressed.

 

[QBall]

The topic of 300BO vs PCC is one I've pondered lately. I'm assuming that a big part of the equation is the ability to run subsonic ammo. A subsonic 300BO at 220gr or so is a bit more energy than a .45ACP. Plus it will preserve that energy down range a lot more than any .45.

Obviously, the ability to use the AR platform is a huge appeal to 300bo. But as you'd want to use it to compare it to a PCC--short barrel, subsonic, as compact as possible (think PDW), I wonder if you depart far enough from the basic AR parameters that it's not ideal. I think most folks know that 300 burns all the powder in 9" of barrel or so, and that all short 300blk barrels are pistol gas (as a many longer ones).

I've got no use for 300blk as a supersonic caliber, as there are simply better choices for that work in an AR.

I like the idea of a blowback vs DI for something I will likely suppress. Also a switchable gas block or BCG might be the easy fix to making 300blk run reliably suppressed.

Because of ammo cost, I don't think 300 BO makes sense as an alternative to a pistol caliber in a braced pistol platform unless you're talking about an 8-10 inch, fighting weapon. For a low cost alternative to 5.56 I don't think you can beat a 9mm AR. Now, in a primary fighting weapon, the 300 starts to make sense because it's far more efficient in short barrels, without the, literally stunning, blast and flash of the 5.56.

 

[1nderbeard]

I went with the Ruger PC. The main reason was price; it was much less than the AR platforms. It also easily accepts Glock mags, which I have a plenty. It does OK supressed. I have some malfunctions. Otherwise is a fun gun to shoot.

 

[hoosierfishing]

I got to give props to the Kel Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2. I have two of them and couldnt be happier. They are tough to beat for what they are.

 

[DadSmith]

The 2 best moments of owning a sub2k are the thrill of the buy and the relief of making most of your money back.

They kick like a 12ga for some reason, the bolt eats facial hair, folded they are still only marginally smaller than a Beretta cx4 (excellent carbine), red dot mounting is a nightmare or you lose the ability to fold, once you pay to do all the mods you could have had a stribog and a case of 9mm. And they are notoriously unreliable under heavy use. you dont generally see one make it through a day of uspsa without at least 2 or 3 malfunctions.

Do yourself a favor and stay far away from the sub2k. I spent the money and tried to like it, really gave it a chance and it just lacked in every category except resale

Thanks for the review. Glad I didn't get one.

 

[BrettonJudy7]

Hi-point.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I will say that if the Ruger take-down 9mm charger pistol had been released a year ago, I'd probably have one of those vs. a Scorpion - and I'd have saved several hundred dollars in the process.

 

[hoosierfishing]

"They kick like a 12g"

Thats not my experience whatsoever. I find the kick to be very mild. Even my gun shy wife found it easy to handle. Not knocking you, just a dramatically different experience

 

[Ggreen]

"They kick like a 12g"

Thats not my experience whatsoever. I find the kick to be very mild. Even my gun shy wife found it easy to handle. Not knocking you, just a dramatically different experience

I've shot 3 different sub2ks now with the same experience on each one. Maybe low recoil birdshot, but it's a motivate difference when you line it up with a decent AR9, stribog, or basically any other pcc. I've found nothing enjoyable or useful about the sub2k.

 

[hoosierfishing]

I've shot 3 different sub2ks now with the same experience on each one. Maybe low recoil birdshot, but it's a motivate difference when you line it up with a decent AR9, stribog, or basically any other pcc. I've found nothing enjoyable or useful about the sub2k.

Fair Enough. Ive owned a Ruger PC9 as well, and have shot a AR9 and Hi Point at length. I found the sub more enjoyable then the Ruger and basically on par with the hi point. Its definitely not in the same ball park as a AR9, but I don't believe it
should be compared to one. Ive put 500 rounds of fmj, hp, and a little +p through mine in one outing. No problems. I have two for a reason That's my .02

 

[Hohn]

I've shot 3 different sub2ks now with the same experience on each one. Maybe low recoil birdshot, but it's a motivate difference when you line it up with a decent AR9, stribog, or basically any other pcc. I've found nothing enjoyable or useful about the sub2k.

Care to speculate on the design elements that create this higher recoil?

 

[Ggreen]

Care to speculate on the design elements that create this higher recoil?

Garbage action, a bolt that bottoms out every time. It's poorly designed functionally to accommodate an awkward, non - firing, folded, position. It is what is and when I'm 60 ill probably wish I had a few in the box