Church Security question

[armalitesheepdog]

I'm not on any team at all but I am curious why so many carry compact and even sub compact. If its because thats what you have and shoot it well thats fine but....wouldn't a 5 or 6 inch barreled pistol provide better accuracy and velocity than a 3 inch? Better long range hit probability. Totaly not being snarky I admire what you do. Even over penetration from little or no expansion?

 

[XDdreams]

So far the biggest situation I’ve run into was an unruly first time visitor. In the middle of a sermon he stood up and started mildly yelling at the pastor. I approached him and in an attempt to deescalate the situation calmly asked him if we could discuss the issue outside the sanctuary. To which he responded with more yelling. I directed him to the rear of the sanctuary to which he became more agitated. At this point I became concerned that it would get physical so I prepared for what I thought was inevitable. I gently but firmly moved him in the direction away from the congregation. All the while he was still spouting his thoughts. It took some effort but I was able to calm him and remove him from the sanctuary. I at no time had to present my weapon but it did get slightly physical. Almost to the point where tackling was an option. To my dismay No other team member reacted. Not until I had him calmed down in the fellowship hall did someone come check. Very disappointed but sadly not surprised.
I thank God it didn’t get to the point of real physical violence or worse. Turns out this guys mom went to the church. She informed us later that he has mental issues and has been refusing to take his medication. According to her, he wasn’t a danger. I informed her that he almost got hurt at best and that it could have been much worst.
Good news is he started taking his medication and actually came to church for a time. We became “friends” and I sat with him weekly (for obvious reasons).
I learned that Not every situation needs to become physical but always be prepared if it does.

Feeling vibes of Swazye Roadhouse.

Dalton:
If somebody gets in your face and calls you a c**ksu**er, I want you to be nice. Ask him to walk. Be nice. If he won't walk, walk him. But be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you, and you'll both be nice. I want you to remember that it's a job. It's nothing personal.

 

[edporch]

I went to a small country church for some years, and quietly carried an M&P Shield and later a Sig P365 with a 12 round magazine.
The first and third of the three successive Pastors while I went there were always armed too, knew I was, and welcomed the backup.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

If your church is developing or already has a developed safety/security team, you will benefit from "Fundamentals of the Church Safety Officer" presented by MALC ( https://www.malctraining.com/ ).

I attended a course last year and the three biggest take aways for me were:

1) being part of a church safety team is a calling. If you aren't called to serve in this capacity, find another way to help at your church.

2) being part of the safety team is a job that doesn't allow for distractions. If you are there to attend worship, great, just don't bother to be part of the safety team that day. The safety team that is "working" cannot be distracted by anything ... you are using your time and talents to protect the congregation.

3) the use of firearms is one of the least likely scenarios you will encounter on the safety team. However, if your team does plan to be armed, you must all be trained to the highest standards possible, AND you must have personal insurance ... even if the church provides insurance.

Attached are my notes from the class for any interested in reading them.

 

[Compatriot G]

I'm not on any team at all but I am curious why so many carry compact and even sub compact. If its because thats what you have and shoot it well thats fine but....wouldn't a 5 or 6 inch barreled pistol provide better accuracy and velocity than a 3 inch? Better long range hit probability. Totaly not being snarky I admire what you do. Even over penetration from little or no expansion?

It may be because the pastor has asked that everybody carry concealed. That is the case in my church. I realize one can OC a full size gun under a suit jacket. However, many of us don't dress that way all the time. If I want to tuck my shirt in, then it is pocket carry. If not, then I usually IWB a Glock 19 sized firearm.

 

[DefenseInsight]

Weapon of choice doesn't matter too much.

Are you well trained?

Have you considered all of the factors around church security that don't involve a gun?

Do you have a layered approach, not just a "security guy/team"?

Consider internal threats, especially towards the children.

 

[NHT3]

Whats the point of INGO if he cant ask a question?

I suppose my point was that it doesn't matter what others carry the concern should be proficiency for the OP. How does knowing what I train with and carry effect the equation? When someone new to the forum starts asking questions about several things on the same day my antenna tend to go up. Call me paranoid if you like

 

[Airtevron1]

If you dont have an answer to the OP's simple question, then dont ask to be "enlightened". Its nunya.

 

[DefenseInsight]

Also, make sure you aren't doing "theater" as security.

 

[flint stonez]

Thanks for all the incredibly helpful information.
I sincerely appreciate those who have supported me asking the question. It was meant as a harmless question. While I understand the paranoia of some I in know way meant to stir the pot. I was involved in forums for many years and even helped moderate. So I know there’s always going to be an individual (or small group) that has to bust the chops of the new guy on the block. I have learned to laugh it off and move on. Kind of like Jr High when a new kid showed up there was always someone that had to see how far they could push him. No hard feelings.
Have a great day.

 

[flint stonez]

Feeling vibes of Swazye Roadhouse.

Dalton:
If somebody gets in your face and calls you a c**ksu**er, I want you to be nice. Ask him to walk. Be nice. If he won't walk, walk him. But be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you, and you'll both be nice. I want you to remember that it's a job. It's nothing personal.

This had me totally cracking up. But it really is great advice for what we do. “Be nice until you can’t be nice”.
On a side note Patrick Swayze was my wife’s heartthrob when she was younger. Can’t wait to tell her that her old fart husband has been compared to Pl Swayze. Would have preferred being compared to Sam Elliot but Swayze wasn’t bad. LoL.
Thanks for the laugh

 

[armalitesheepdog]

It may be because the pastor has asked that everybody carry concealed. That is the case in my church. I realize one can OC a full size gun under a suit jacket. However, many of us don't dress that way all the time. If I want to tuck my shirt in, then it is pocket carry. If not, then I usually IWB a Glock 19 sized firearm.

Fair enough

 

[Nazgul]

First I said respectfully. 2nd it wasn’t to brow beat anyone and those that know me know my legitimate background. So with that you should attend a Rangemaster class.

And while yes head shots are harder to do than most think it’s the only other place.

Also as far as anything I relay I’ve seen “center mass” hit from a 230 JHP and when I arrived the deputy that shot him had him in handcuffs and the perp talked all the way to the hospital

85% of folks shot with handguns survive and if that 85% center mass hits was a large percentage of hits

So if my statement offended you because if your antiquated blanket statement not my fault. I only relayed facts that have been learned over the last 40 years of shootings!

No offense meant or taken. Just trying to be practical.

7 years in the Marines, more than 1 gunfight and I am still here posting S**T on the internet.

My $.02.

Don

 

[Expat]

Remember Jack Wilson? He put his POS down with an Sig P229 in 357 Sig. Be like Jack.

Meet the man who 'took out' the active shooter at a Texas church

Jack Wilson said he was one of the congregants who shot and killed a man Sunday as the man opened fire in a church near Fort Worth, Texas.

www.wfaa.com

 

[NHT3]

If you dont have an answer to the OP's simple question, then dont ask to be "enlightened". Its nunya.

I was asking to be enlightened about how my preferences might affect what someone else might do.. I've expounded a number of times on my carry preferences on INGO but I still don't see how that's a relevant question in the conversation or for that matter "what's it to you", have you been appointed hall monitor?

 

[ditcherman]

Remember Jack Wilson? He put his POS down with an Sig P229 in 357 Sig. Be like Jack.

Meet the man who 'took out' the active shooter at a Texas church

Jack Wilson said he was one of the congregants who shot and killed a man Sunday as the man opened fire in a church near Fort Worth, Texas.

www.wfaa.com

It works if you can do it.
I know I can.
Except for the adrenaline dump. And the distractions. And the other people.
I’m more concerned with encouraging people to know their limits, than to cowboy up.
There’s a lot of liability out there, and people that know me know I don’t talk that way very often.

 

[ditcherman]

It may be because the pastor has asked that everybody carry concealed. That is the case in my church. I realize one can OC a full size gun under a suit jacket. However, many of us don't dress that way all the time. If I want to tuck my shirt in, then it is pocket carry. If not, then I usually IWB a Glock 19 sized firearm.

Some people can conceal a full size. Depends on your build, your comfort level, and your definition of “conceal”, as in other carriers might spot a tell but your average person is oblivious.

 

[ditcherman]

If your church is developing or already has a developed safety/security team, you will benefit from "Fundamentals of the Church Safety Officer" presented by MALC ( https://www.malctraining.com/ ).

I attended a course last year and the three biggest take aways for me were:

1) being part of a church safety team is a calling. If you aren't called to serve in this capacity, find another way to help at your church.

2) being part of the safety team is a job that doesn't allow for distractions. If you are there to attend worship, great, just don't bother to be part of the safety team that day. The safety team that is "working" cannot be distracted by anything ... you are using your time and talents to protect the congregation.

3) the use of firearms is one of the least likely scenarios you will encounter on the safety team. However, if your team does plan to be armed, you must all be trained to the highest standards possible, AND you must have personal insurance ... even if the church provides insurance.

Attached are my notes from the class for any interested in reading them.

All good info, and we’ve had some people come in and speak to our team - one of the team requirements they listed was that you are the first there and the last to leave, for any time the building is occupied. I generally am both at least on a Sunday, but that is a very impractical thing to say to a group of volunteers.

My point is that while guidance from professionals is great, for a team to be successful they might need to adapt some of those “rules” to fit them.
Not so hard and fast.

 

[Airtevron1]

I was asking to be enlightened about how my preferences might affect what someone else might do.. I've expounded a number of times on my carry preferences on INGO but I still don't see how that's a relevant question in the conversation or for that matter "what's it to you", have you been appointed hall monitor?

Look who's asking lol. You dont address OP question and want HIM to ENLIGHTEN YOU LOL. " I still don't see how that's a relevant question" Again, NUNYA.
Who are you, some self appointed INGO elder that has to pipe in with no intelligent answer and question the OP for asking? Get a life.

 

[flint stonez]

I was asking to be enlightened about how my preferences might affect what someone else might do.. I've expounded a number of times on my carry preferences on INGO but I still don't see how that's a relevant question in the conversation or for that matter "what's it to you", have you been appointed hall monitor?

So, did I set a INGO record? Been posting here less than 2 days and already hacking folks off. I did Not join INGO to cause issues, so if anyone can rationally explain what I have done that has clearly upset someone - I’m all ears. As far as I can tell the vast majority were more than willing to share there opinions and experiences. To which I am grateful. I’ve learned quite a bit from people that obviously have vastly more knowledge in this area than I.
For clarity …. I asked a simple question and sincerely appreciate most everyone’s input. I do wonder why my simple inquiry has caused such a problem for some?