Church Security question

[Cameramonkey]

So, did I set a INGO record? Been posting here less than 2 days and already hacking folks off. I did Not join INGO to cause issues, so if anyone can rationally explain what I have done that has clearly upset someone - I’m all ears. As far as I can tell the vast majority were more than willing to share there opinions and experiences. To which I am grateful. I’ve learned quite a bit from people that obviously have vastly more knowledge in this area than I.
For clarity …. I asked a simple question and sincerely appreciate most everyone’s input. I do wonder why my simple inquiry has caused such a problem for some?

It’s not you. It’s him.

You are doing fine.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It’s not you. It’s him.

You are doing fine.

 

[BigMoose]

We built an elevated booth back in 2021 when we started streaming to get it out of the way by moving it to the back wall. (It used to be a table 3/4 of the way back, blocking the view of some members) The camera position is at the end of the center aisle, and the rest of the stations are beside it away from the entrance. The entrance is 3/4 of the way back, on the side.

Since that corner of the booth faces the door, we half jokingly considered making the corner a solid sandwich of 2x6s instead of the 2x4s 16 on center that the rest of the booth is made of. That would create a 4x4' bullet resistant barrier. Since I'm on the team and also run multimedia, I'd have a perfect elevated, shooting position with cover. We decided against it.

With everything going on, maybe we should have?

Why wood? why not some thin steel on the inside of the booth.

 

[jsx1043]

A compact is what you carry for self defense. A full size is what you carry for a gunfight when you can’t carry a rifle.

And I would absolutely have a rifle
In that elevated overwatch position. Heck, I would have a rifle(man) in a side room but I’m built a little different.

 

[BigMoose]

A compact is what you carry for self defense. A full size is what you carry for a gunfight when you can’t carry a rifle.

And I would absolutely have a rifle
In that elevated overwatch position. Heck, I would have a rifle(man) in a side room but I’m built a little different.

That reminds me of something, last years train the teacher bill, and some idiot Anti said the only way you could defend a school from an attacker is if you had a gun that fired more then 60 rounds a second.

My thought was... well we DO have those things...



But yes, a rifle beats a pistol, and a machine gun beats a rifle..

Not that I think an MG would be the best thing.. but a rifle with a magpul 60 drum stashed in the AV elevated position would be hard to go up against for an assailant.

 

[BigMoose]

Besides.. there is this.

Ezekiel 25:17​

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

 

[Amishman44]

Would also be in the best interest to have some trauma training and a small kit at the ready.

OP - carry what you are most comfortable with and shoot most accurately.

Trauma Training - definitely a 'must' because, in the event that there would be an active-shooter event at your church, the medics will be the last individuals allowed into the building after the situation has been confirmed contained and it's the trauma care provided by those inside the building that will save the most lives!

As a former volunteer EMT with 26 years experience, stopping bleeding is the critical element necessary to save lives in the time it takes for EMS to get into the building.

 

[NHT3]

So, did I set a INGO record? Been posting here less than 2 days and already hacking folks off. I did Not join INGO to cause issues, so if anyone can rationally explain what I have done that has clearly upset someone - I’m all ears. As far as I can tell the vast majority were more than willing to share there opinions and experiences. To which I am grateful. I’ve learned quite a bit from people that obviously have vastly more knowledge in this area than I.
For clarity …. I asked a simple question and sincerely appreciate most everyone’s input. I do wonder why my simple inquiry has caused such a problem for some?

No problem here, I wasn't directing anything at you and we're glad to have new participants here.. I was simply trying to figure out how what others were carrying related to church security.. Our church has what I would consider two tiers of "overwatch". Someone (unarmed) is designated to keep an eye on the interior of the building and greet late arrivals and there are others (armed) available if the greeter needs assistance or has problems. Church is small with only one entrance so that's what works for us.
Adequate training is the key to keeping your flock safe, much more important that what you are carrying.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Why wood? why not some thin steel on the inside of the booth.

The assumption was 6" of solid pine plus the compressed wood sheathing we were using would have stopped pretty much anything a typical active shooter would bring without getting exotic and adding obvious steel. A handful of 2x6's wouldnt raise much suspicion and we could claim it was for stability to make damn sure that camera mounted to the wall wouldnt move or vibrate when people walked around in the booth. Yes, that was all discussed as we kicked around the design.

But like I said, we felt it was a bit over the top and not being a good steward with the finances. And if we change our minds a couple 4'x4'x1/2" AR500 could be bolted down inside and painted to blend in. But not likely. We are out of the way, low profile, and otherwise not likely to be attacked.

 

[diver dan]

Hey you guys,also remember that there might be a churchgoer that is also carrying , as I am one of those guys.I run the camera for the church services for the 3 services we have,somehow be prepared for a church member that is carrying , I happen to be situated at rear of church on a 2ft elevated platform near the back of church.BE AWARE .

 

[Cynical]

A compact is what you carry for self defense. A full size is what you carry for a gunfight when you can’t carry a rifle.

And I would absolutely have a rifle
In that elevated overwatch position. Heck, I would have a rifle(man) in a side room but I’m built a little different.

I kind of have a rifle, its strapped to the drivers seat. We have the luxury of having a Sheriff's deputy who is also a swat commander and he has one in his squad car which he parks in a prominent location every Sunday to let people know there is LEO attending. Unfortunately none of has figured out a way to store them in the church securely. I'm way better with a rifle but until we figure out a way to keep them accessible and secured were stuck with pistols.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Hey you guys,also remember that there might be a churchgoer that is also carrying , as I am one of those guys.I run the camera for the church services for the 3 services we have,somehow be prepared for a church member that is carrying , I happen to be situated at rear of church on a 2ft elevated platform near the back of church.BE AWARE .

Please coordinate with your safety team. Make sure you are aware of their tactics and training and (SHTF) event plans. Ask them what they want you to do.

Its entirely possible you could make matters worse if you arent not coordinated with them.

Ideally they will thank you for communicating and will loop you into the plans.

 

[jsx1043]

I kind of have a rifle, its strapped to the drivers seat. We have the luxury of having a Sheriff's deputy who is also a swat commander and he has one in his squad car which he parks in a prominent location every Sunday to let people know there is LEO attending. Unfortunately none of has figured out a way to store them in the church securely. I'm way better with a rifle but until we figure out a way to keep them accessible and secured were stuck with pistols.

This is why I was half-joking about a rifleman earlier. After two decades of LE, if my rifle was in the car, many times it might as well have been in the gun safe. If I’m running security at the church and it’s decided a rifle is prudent, I’d have the rifleman discreetly posted near the entrance or good line of sight to the main entrance. Heck, I’ve been that guy more times than I count on PSD details. If I’m that guy, sure I might be missing most of the service, but my service to the congregation is more important.

Truth be told, with only one point of ingress into the church, a threat would most likely be observed on approach to the door and able to be engaged outside, as long as there’s a sentry posted outside.

Not saying it’s necessary by any means, but when seconds count, your rifle is only across the parking lot under some form of security, requiring fine motor skills to unlock the car, retrieve it, put into action, and agress to the threat. My view is that the only fine motor skills needed should by my thumb on the safety selector.

Dance with the one that brung ya. That’s why I carry(ied) 81 rounds on duty.

 

[charlie729]

I am on a security team at my church, between both services we have about 400 people that attend. We have 3 people on the team that covers a kids area and one at each of two entrances. I also carry a sig 365

 

[charlie729]

I am on our church security team there are 15 of us total and 3 on at any given time and when not on duty I set in the back and watch for anything going on. We had a training session not long ago and part of it was with a computer program that had different scenarios and we used sirt guns.

 

[charlie729]

Considering all the information y’all have provided I’m inclined to approach leadership with “new” ideas. I agree aomethkng has to be done and that things for churches will get worse so we need to be prepared.
Thank you very much

There are a few things you need to have for your security team, SOP's, insurance and training.

 

[charlie729]

If your church is developing or already has a developed safety/security team, you will benefit from "Fundamentals of the Church Safety Officer" presented by MALC ( https://www.malctraining.com/ ).

I attended a course last year and the three biggest take aways for me were:

1) being part of a church safety team is a calling. If you aren't called to serve in this capacity, find another way to help at your church.

2) being part of the safety team is a job that doesn't allow for distractions. If you are there to attend worship, great, just don't bother to be part of the safety team that day. The safety team that is "working" cannot be distracted by anything ... you are using your time and talents to protect the congregation.

3) the use of firearms is one of the least likely scenarios you will encounter on the safety team. However, if your team does plan to be armed, you must all be trained to the highest standards possible, AND you must have personal insurance ... even if the church provides insurance.

Attached are my notes from the class for any interested in reading them.

I like the way you think. Most of our team are members of USCCA

 

[Cynical]

This is why I was half-joking about a rifleman earlier. After two decades of LE, if my rifle was in the car, many times it might as well have been in the gun safe. If I’m running security at the church and it’s decided a rifle is prudent, I’d have the rifleman discreetly posted near the entrance or good line of sight to the main entrance. Heck, I’ve been that guy more times than I count on PSD details. If I’m that guy, sure I might be missing most of the service, but my service to the congregation is more important.

Truth be told, with only one point of ingress into the church, a threat would most likely be observed on approach to the door and able to be engaged outside, as long as there’s a sentry posted outside.

Not saying it’s necessary by any means, but when seconds count, your rifle is only across the parking lot under some form of security, requiring fine motor skills to unlock the car, retrieve it, put into action, and agress to the threat. My view is that the only fine motor skills needed should by my thumb on the safety selector.

Dance with the one that brung ya. That’s why I carry(ied) 81 rounds on duty.

You are spot on, obviously well versed given your work. We have two means of ingress easily monitored with one location and 2 guys available outside the sanctuary and 2-4 of oz inside. We actually have a training session on Sat. with our Resident Deputy and his swat guys training us, the rank amateurs. I might bring up a central location for a "discrete location for a small gun locker" great food for thought. As a side note I felt a little strange carrying 45 rounds on a Sunday. Guess I need to up my game.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'll preface this with "you do you" in regards to long guns. If you choose to go that route, great.

We have discussed this. If we think we need to be bringing long guns into the mix, its because we have intelligence that we expect an eminent attack by a well armed individual. (disgruntled redneck ex, etc) In that case, the police will be involved and hopefully will have a nearby presence, additional patrols, and maybe an officer camped out doing paperwork in the parking lot between runs.

Then again, we are in a residential neighborhood, off the beaten path, nowhere near walkable sidewalks or bus stations. They are going to have to drive by numerous other higher profile churches to get to us. And unless they drive around aimlessly, they wont even know we are here. So an out of the blue rando with a rifle will most likely target somebody else before they can get to us.

And part of our approach is rooted in faith. The faith that God will watch over us and not hit us with anything we cannot handle.

 

[edporch]

Remember Jack Wilson? He put his POS down with an Sig P229 in 357 Sig. Be like Jack.

Meet the man who 'took out' the active shooter at a Texas church

Jack Wilson said he was one of the congregants who shot and killed a man Sunday as the man opened fire in a church near Fort Worth, Texas.

www.wfaa.com

Sweet pistol, I often carry a Sig P229 .357 Sig.