Biden to cancel Keystone XL pipeline permit.

[foszoe]

the discussion was about our grid, you didn't quote anything bug said.

Post 242...the one you quoted.

 

[foszoe]

So has Biden . . .

I agree

 

[Twangbanger]

Fonz, I want to make sure I understand you correctly (because your one-line responses are coming across kinda weak)...are you saying you really think it's scientifically and politically feasible for the U.S. to have a solar farm in equatorial C./S. America, with the joules being transmitted long distance via land line, and draw a significant portion of the energy needs of our current standard of living from that?

Can you show your work?

 

[Mikey1911]

Boosters at a lot closer intervals than AC?

Expound on that please.

Apparently not everybody understands that you are advocating for HVDC transmission of remotely-collected solar energy at something around the +/- 500kV used on the Pacific and Intermountain Interties, and not the 100 vDC that Edison was running out of Pearl Street.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You do realize that is a real time snapshot, right?

16 years ago, that chart may have hit 1000 MW. Now it routinely tops 12-15 GW. In recent weeks, it's topped 20 GW

Is this economically viable or subsidized?

 

[foszoe]

Fonz, I want to make sure I understand you correctly (because your one-line responses are coming across kinda weak)...are you saying you really think it's scientifically and politically feasible for the U.S. to have a solar farm in equatorial C./S. America, with the joules being transmitted long distance via land line, and draw a significant portion of the energy needs of our current standard of living from that?

Can you show your work?

Said none of that.

Read post 242...bugs pist and my reply. He sets up a whole scenario and then talks ac analysis for transmission. I simply said for something that far, it would be DC

 

[Jaybird1980]

Post 242...the one you quoted.

Mea Culpa, i apparently missed it

 

[BugI02]

Long distance would be accomplished by DC transmission. Much lower losses than AC.

You're thinking HVDC, so you take your losses when you step up the voltage to the necessary levels and when you inevitably have to convert to a/c at the other end in order to use it - you don't excape that, you just cut transmission losses somewhat. You don't, however, address the sheer size of the collection area nor the problems inherrent in running lines thousands of miles through difficult terrain and unstable countries

But , hey, if you can find the investors more power to you. If you want to force me to fund it ain't gonna happen

 

[foszoe]

You guys are setting up straw men based on a post I didn't make.

Out for the night

 

[churchmouse]

Interesting discussion peoples. Learning.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Apparently not everybody understands that you are advocating for HVDC transmission of remotely-collected solar energy at something around the +/- 500kV used on the Pacific and Intermountain Interties, and not the 100 vDC that Edison was running out of Pearl Street.

I believe that's my fault.

 

[ghitch75]

Boosters at a lot closer intervals than AC?

Expound on that please.

voltage drop dc harder to step up and down

 

[churchmouse]

OK something has changed in my understanding of how electricity is sent out to the grid.
I always understood that DC power had limitations on spanning distance as apposed to AC power. Or so I was told by those I held in high regard for their knowledge.

 

[Mikey1911]

I believe that's my fault.

Not looking to assign fault (as an EE I hate faults—they can tear up my people and usually tear up my equipment); only to resolve confusion.
How much would one have to scale up the 1350 km/845 mile +/- 500 kV 3100 MW Pacific Intertie to bring solar power from an equatorial latitude to the USA?
Maybe PV collector arrays could be located offshore, on the Continental Shelf?
Down here in southern Indiana there is a lot of strip-mined land that could support PV arrays for local generation (instead of putting the arrays on farmland).

 

[Mikey1911]

OK something has changed in my understanding of how electricity is sent out to the grid.
I always understood that DC power had limitations on spanning distance as apposed to AC power. Or so I was told by those I held in high regard for their knowledge.

Once you step up three-phase AC to several hundred kV, converting it to HVDC for transmission from a large source to a large load over several hundred miles away starts to make engineering and economic sense.
Google a man named Uno Lamm, from the Swedish firm ASEA, about the development of HVDC transmission if you are interested.

 

[BugI02]

Good Lord, Bug talks about transmission from the equator so I mentioned DC is cheaper over long distance than AC.

Did you think I was talking about something less than the break even distance?

More likely just wanted to disagree.

You were the one said power could be shipped in from where solar was viable during the winter. Were you planning on buying up 300 square miles of SoCal or AZ? Or do you think environmentalists will let you cover that much land (even desert land) anywhere here in America?

 

[churchmouse]

Once you step up three-phase AC to several hundred kV, converting it to HVDC for transmission from a large source to a large load over several hundred miles away starts to make engineering and economic sense.
Google a man named Uno Lamm, from the Swedish firm ASEA, about the development of HVDC transmission if you are interested.

I am and I will.
Thanks.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Not looking to assign fault (as an EE I hate faults—they can tear up my people and usually tear up my equipment); only to resolve confusion.
How much would one have to scale up the 1350 km/845 mile +/- 500 kV 3100 MW Pacific Intertie to bring solar power from an equatorial latitude to the USA?
Maybe PV collector arrays could be located offshore, on the Continental Shelf?
Down here in southern Indiana there is a lot of strip-mined land that could support PV arrays for local generation (instead of putting the arrays on farmland).

I have limited knowledge on HVDC, I only know that infrastructure is not in place.
The Solar & Wind I was referencing is what's in play now.

 

[printcraft]

Stereotyping?

Stater of the obvious.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You were the one said power could be shipped in from where solar was viable during the winter. Were you planning on buying up 300 square miles of SoCal or AZ? Or do you think environmentalists will let you cover that much land (even desert land) anywhere here in America?

Especially desert. Arizona's county officials have maps of dry runs AND YOU DO NIT TOUCH THEM. There are essentially very lightly defined (I.e., most of us could be looking right at one and not realize it was there) streams/ditches that carry water on average a couple days a year. It's a real bastard building a house there. Now try a solar field.