Biden to cancel Keystone XL pipeline permit.

[foszoe]

Biden says its going to be in decline pretty soon. Lol
reread the thread

Well he ain't lying. It's been declining for decades

 

[foszoe]

Insolation at the equator is between 380 and 430 W/sq meter (depending on the time of the year) for no more than twelve hours per day

With commercial photovoltaic efficiency available now in the 22 to 26% range, 1kw would require 9 to 12 sq. meters

If you're going to transmit it long distances (like to the US) you need to convert it to a/c and conversion losses can be as high as 30%, or 13 to 17 sq. meters per kw

US total energy consumption in 2019 was about 4 trillion kWh, or about 11 billion kwh per day. Assuming 2/3 is daytime consumption that is about 611 million kWh per hour during that time

That equates to at best 8 billion sq meters of photovoltaics, or 800 million sq meters to accomodate 10% of US daily demand, which is 800 square kilometers or a square 17.5 miles on a side plus room for the infrastructure - enough to completely cover Honolulu more than 4 times over. Where are you going to put it?

Will an equatorial country give up 300+ square miles of cleared land? I think not, esp. since most of that is farm land. Are you going to hack 300 square miles out of jungle (and keep it hacked)? Bon Appétit

C'mon, foz -you should be able to do the math as well as I can. And don't forget that the US will have to come up with the other 300 million or so kWh per hour of demand during the night. Then you have transmission infrastructure running about 2400 miles through countries of various degrees of lawlessness or instability (that distance is Bogata to Brownsville)

Then long line transmission loss is 8% at best, so you need to up your photovoltaic area commensurately, all to take on 10% of us power consumption for half the day.

I'm sure you'll have no difficulty lining up investors

Long distance would be accomplished by DC transmission. Much lower losses than AC.

 

[Jaybird1980]

At the design parameters, slagging is much less. With dirty blends it becomes necessary to deslag more often sometimes much more often.

Have you ever been in a powerplant, particularly a coal fired powerplant? Ever stood inside the boiler, repair the wall tubes, slag tank, grinders, sootblowers, ID, FD fans etc.?

I have this isnt theory for me, its real life stuff

 

[foszoe]

Have you ever been in a powerplant, particularly a coal fired powerplant? Ever stood inside the boiler, repair the wall tubes, slag tank, grinders, sootblowers, ID, FD fans etc.?

I have this isnt theory for me, its real life stuff

Yes

 

[Jaybird1980]

Long distance would be accomplished by DC transmission. Much lower losses than AC.

Nikola Tesla disagrees, their is a reason it AC today. And that is actually transmission capabilities

 

[Ingomike]

You guys would argue all day long for steam engines in the face of internal combustion. Unable to see the future for the present

Very detailed input right there...

 

[Jaybird1980]

Yes

Call me a skeptic.

 

[OkieGirl]

Ok, if this is going to become an energy debate may I add a few things to think about?

Lowering consumption will also cause a reduction in prices. For example, a global pandemic that has massive amounts of workers logging in from home rather than their usual half hour or so commute through rush hour traffic in their thirsty V8 with the AC or Heat on full blast. If the need for oil dropped sharply there could be an incorrect assumption that this pipeline was no longer needed.

Offering simple solutions that every day consumers can adopt easily will reduce consumption of energy. The LED bulbs for example; nearly everyone's homes have transitioned to the new bulbs or are in the process of doing so. Where regulations and neighborhood associations haven't regulated away any opportunity for dabbling in solar or alternative energy sources, there are residential consumers who are installing small solar grids and battery banks for storage and/or selling back to the grid. The technology is adapting quickly, but like CM stated earlier it still has a long way to go. For our off grid cabin we've had a solar energy plan in place for a few years and have already had to upgrade batteries to meet our needs. We are also in early discussions on changing our panels out for the newer, more productive panels that are hitting the market. Expensive changes to make and not a comfortable discussion for us to be having this year. I'm hoping if we drag our feet a bit longer there will be better products hitting the market or the prices will start to come down for what's out there now. This technology still has a log way to go but there is growing interest and as people see it as a 'do able' change it will be adopted more readily. However, the concept of forcing change on people will likely hamper the progress...

 

[foszoe]

Nikola Tesla disagrees, their is a reason it AC today. And that is actually transmission capabilities

DC becomes cheaper over long distances than AC. That doesn't mean AC isn't more economical in medium distance.

 

[churchmouse]

Energy storage | AES Indiana

Energy storage

www.iplpower.com

OK this is mostly for balance not power supply on a steady basis. You realize this will absorb power as well as this has been explained to me. Frequency control is a new ball game done this way. It is a step up.

 

[foszoe]

Call me a skeptic.

Rather just call you Jay.

 

[Jaybird1980]

DC becomes cheaper over long distances than AC. That doesn't mean AC isn't more economical in medium distance.

over the Break Even distance only. and still has limitations, you don't get something for nothing

 

[foszoe]

OK this is mostly for balance not power supply on a steady basis. You realize this will absorb power as well as this has been explained to me. Frequency control is a new ball game done this way. It is a step up.

Yes. >60 Hz charge, <60 Hz discharge

 

[Jaybird1980]

Rather just call you Jay.

thats fine, just don't call me late for dinner

 

[churchmouse]

Ignoring your first sentence, the rest is true. Your conclusions aren't. That's exactly why boilers started having so much slaging issues because bean counters ignored design parameters and started burning cheap ass coal from out west

Yes. >60 Hz charge, <60 Hz discharge

Precisely. Balance not supply.

 

[ghitch75]

DC becomes cheaper over long distances than AC. That doesn't mean AC isn't more economical in medium distance.

it can't you have to have boosters at a lot closer intervals than AC.....so we must rebuild the grid too???

that is not free so power costs go up....

 

[foszoe]

over the Break Even distance only.

Good Lord, Bug talks about transmission from the equator so I mentioned DC is cheaper over long distance than AC.

Did you think I was talking about something less than the break even distance?

More likely just wanted to disagree.

 

[foszoe]

it can't you have to have boosters at a lot closer intervals than AC.....so we must rebuild the grid too???

that is not free so power costs go up....

Boosters at a lot closer intervals than AC?

Expound on that please.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Good Lord, Bug talks about transmission from the equator so I mentioned DC is cheaper over long distance than AC.

Did you think I was talking about something less than the break even distance?

More likely just wanted to disagree.

the discussion was about our grid, you didn't quote anything bug said.

I disagree with the underlined part.

 

[Mikey1911]

Well he ain't lying. It's been declining for decades

So has Biden . . .