Ban on burning solid fuels

[fjw2]

Today this is the only way.....

Today this is the only way.....

Feel the warmth from here!

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Built this in Alaska. New wood stove prices up there are very expensive. Plan on buying my stove down here and hauling it up next year.

 

[***Ironhead***]

Built this in Alaska. New wood stove prices up there are very expensive. Plan on buying my stove down here and hauling it up next year.
View attachment 124736

Nice place! What about an out door boiler?

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Place is out on an island. Totally off grid. Solar and inverter generator for power. Collect rain water for drinking and cooking. Outhouse for sanitation. Two story 24x14 with two decks. Sleeps six. Propane heater, water heater, fridge. Everything has to be hauled out by boat.

2017 before I put the decks on.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Watch that first step. Its a doozy.

 

[poisonspyder]

In a phone interview before the lawsuit was filed, Cody Sanders denied that he burns anything but wood and coal.

In other news, Cody works at a nearby plant that makes PVC dimensional lumber and is often seen carting truckloads of scrap "wood" home.

OK, so I added that second line.

But seriously, It sounds like the guy has absolutely zero clue how to run his boiler, or really is burning stuff besides coal and wood. The latter is my guess. Because fuel aint cheap, and when you have lots of burnable consumables packaging, why not? its a win-win. I get heat and I dont have to pay for trash service.

I’m positive this guy didn’t burn trash. Maybe this train that burns the same coal from the same mine is burning trash too?
Just because you don’t see the pollution doesn’t mean your fuel source didn’t have pollution making it.

 

[poisonspyder]

Again, my comment was specifically about ENFORCEMENT of federal laws. Not about whether similar state laws are being enforced elsewhere, or whether federal laws exist in the first place. What federal laws are being enforced against burning wood in Indiana? A law is useless without enforcement. Federal agencies won’t be coming to your house because you have a chimney. Local LE doesn’t enforce federal laws. Without Indiana having something on the books about this, who does that leave to make these laws have meaning? My point is people are getting keyed up about a moot point.

Colorado doesn’t have a law on the books like this. The law is federal and it has been on the books awhile without enforcement. This was the first case of attempted enforcement that I know of. It Doesn’t mean they won’t come for you next. To try and tell a rancher how he can heat his home seems a bit over the top to me. God didn’t put coal on this earth to give us diamonds. He gave us a source of fuel.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I’m positive this guy didn’t burn trash. Maybe this train that burns the same coal from the same mine is burning trash too?
Just because you don’t see the pollution doesn’t mean your fuel source didn’t have pollution making it.

Apples and oranges. Those old horses arent optimized for a complete, clean burn. Quite the contrary; The steam system forces drafting with steam pressure. This causes incomplete burns and black smoke as seen above. That black smoke if left in the firebox to naturally draft would combust and exit the stack with much less color.

When was the last time you saw a coal fired power plant belching black smoke like that? And coal smoke doesnt have the color and specific odor the neighbors complain about. I have a neighbor that burns garbage, and as a kid in the country I burned garbage back in the day. I understand the smell they are talking about. Its a unique smell.


But my sarcasm aside, even coal can be optimized with proper venting and flue control.

 

[poisonspyder]

Apples and oranges. Those old horses arent optimized for a complete, clean burn. Quite the contrary; The steam system forces drafting with steam pressure. This causes incomplete burns and black smoke as seen above. That black smoke if left in the firebox to naturally draft would combust and exit the stack with much less color.

When was the last time you saw a coal fired power plant belching black smoke like that? And coal smoke doesnt have the color and specific odor the neighbors complain about. I have a neighbor that burns garbage, and as a kid in the country I burned garbage back in the day. I understand the smell they are talking about. Its a unique smell.


But my sarcasm aside, even coal can be optimized with proper venting and flue control.

Coal fired power plants have million dollar scrubbers that clean the air now. This 10k boiler does not. This is also soft coal that burns less clean than the hard coal back east from PA. I know for a fact there has never been one once of trash burned in this boiler. The neighbor was a liberal idiot that doesn’t like coal. The new neighbors that bought his house for 200k less than it was worth and have never complained about the coal or the 100 pigs next to his house. All fires that sit at idle will smoke on first fire up and until they get going again. Once going it burns relatively clean. Have you not seen smoke bellowing out of a house chimney before? A outdoor boiler starts a fire every time the water temp drops 5 degrees. It then heats the water back to temp and sits at idle till the fan kicks in and starts it again

normal picture of coal burner at idle.

 

[poisonspyder]

This is a picture of the neighbors house that sued the guy. Looks as if his smoke problems may be coming from his own house to me. His house is also west of the coal heated house. Generally the wind comes from the west or southwest blowing east to north east. The coal fired boiler sits due east of his house. This is a prime example of how a liberal news article can sway the opinion of some to the point they believe this guy was burning trash. Photos can be altered and people can sue someone because they don’t like the way they look. They may or may not win depending on who has the most money.
Luckily this guys insurance covered all the legal fees and represented him. I would think they would not of done that had he of been burning tires, and trash or been illegal? The people that sued him ultimately lost 200k on the sale of there home and about the same in the legal fees. The guy that got sued lost 1000 deductible, still burns coal to heat and has made a great new business selling 100 pigs a year for meat to the locals. His pork is delicious and he fought the man and won.

 

[churchmouse]

Apples and oranges. Those old horses arent optimized for a complete, clean burn. Quite the contrary; The steam system forces drafting with steam pressure. This causes incomplete burns and black smoke as seen above. That black smoke if left in the firebox to naturally draft would combust and exit the stack with much less color.

When was the last time you saw a coal fired power plant belching black smoke like that? And coal smoke doesnt have the color and specific odor the neighbors complain about. I have a neighbor that burns garbage, and as a kid in the country I burned garbage back in the day. I understand the smell they are talking about. Its a unique smell.


But my sarcasm aside, even coal can be optimized with proper venting and flue control.

Look at the Perry K steam generating plant down town Indy. You never see the stacks belching nasty on that facility. The boilers are 7 story's tall and there are several of them in the building. The coal reduced to a sine powder and blown in with fan forced air much like a fuel oil burner. The coal ignites and burns very intensely but does not produce the smoke. The ash is washed down to the bottom of the stacks and is much like a paste. Removed by tanker trucks and taken off to who knows where. It is actually a very clean operation.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Look at the Perry K steam generating plant down town Indy. You never see the stacks belching nasty on that facility. The boilers are 7 story's tall and there are several of them in the building. The coal reduced to a sine powder and blown in with fan forced air much like a fuel oil burner. The coal ignites and burns very intensely but does not produce the smoke. The ash is washed down to the bottom of the stacks and is much like a paste. Removed by tanker trucks and taken off to who knows where. It is actually a very clean operation.

This is pretty close. The fly ash (the stuff that goes out the flue) actually never gets to the stack anymore. It is removed in the FGD process, the byproduct is what makes gypsum for drywall (we send ours to Georgia-Pacific) it's also used in some concrete/cement. I wouldn't call it a clean operation by any means, but the flue gas is highly processed and has been for quite some time. The real issue is the slag waste and when the plants can't take all the product it takes up a lot of space in a land fill and ground contamination.

 

[churchmouse]

This is pretty close. The fly ash (the stuff that goes out the flue) actually never gets to the stack anymore. It is removed in the FGD process, the byproduct is what makes gypsum for drywall (we send ours to Georgia-Pacific) it's also used in some concrete/cement. I wouldn't call it a clean operation by any means, but the flue gas is highly processed and has been for quite some time. The real issue is the slag waste and when the plants can't take all the product it takes up a lot of space in a land fill and ground contamination.

But it came from the ground in the beginning ...???

Hey I get it. I really do.

 

[poisonspyder]

Look at the Perry K steam generating plant down town Indy. You never see the stacks belching nasty on that facility. The boilers are 7 story's tall and there are several of them in the building. The coal reduced to a sine powder and blown in with fan forced air much like a fuel oil burner. The coal ignites and burns very intensely but does not produce the smoke. The ash is washed down to the bottom of the stacks and is much like a paste. Removed by tanker trucks and taken off to who knows where. It is actually a very clean operation.

Last ever load of coal arrives at Downtown steam plant

Citizens Energy Group's 50-car coal train made its last 100-ton delivery to the Perry K Coal Yard today as the neighb...

www.google.com

This article from Indy says they use natural gas now and coal gas not been used since 2014.

 

[poisonspyder]

It is very hard to make any soft coal burn clean. It is high in sulfur and will produce the yellow colored smoke you see when first ignited. Scrubbers clog up and cost millions to operate which is why the factory switched to natural gas. Wood goes out at 3 am and needs to be reloaded were the coal burns all night. Natural gas is not a option in the country setting only cities. I live on this property and have never had a issue with the coal smoke. This was gov intrusion supplied via a liberal neighbor.

Coal fired trains all burn lump soft coal. Cleaner burning pot boilers fired with hard coal produce very little smoke at all. Unfortunately here in Colorado trucking loads of hard coal from pa is not going to be cost effective. His house is 3k a month in propane usage on average for 6 months. It’s less then 2k a year in coal from a local mine less than 3 miles from him. It is a 8700 square ft Mormon house he bought in a bank repo.

 

[Jaybird1980]

But it came from the ground in the beginning ...???

Hey I get it. I really do.

Yeah, but not the surface of the ground. When the waste leaches into water sources it is an issue, particularly benzene IMO. Old holding ponds and landfill were unlined. People always talk about the flue because that is what they mostly seen, without understanding that what they are seeing has been manipulated to make it more pleasing. One of our plants uses a slightly different FGD process and the flue gas is almost invisible when at full operation.

This is one plant at operation, notice you can't really see the flue gas ( it would be more noticeable in colder weather of course)

And this is a different plant, it's and older pic and a different stack is now used for the right 2 stacks. Notice the difference in the flue gas coming out of the right 2 stacks vs the left. People find the fluffy white flue more acceptable but the outputs are the same.

 

[KLB]

This is pretty close. The fly ash (the stuff that goes out the flue) actually never gets to the stack anymore. It is removed in the FGD process, the byproduct is what makes gypsum for drywall (we send ours to Georgia-Pacific) it's also used in some concrete/cement. I wouldn't call it a clean operation by any means, but the flue gas is highly processed and has been for quite some time. The real issue is the slag waste and when the plants can't take all the product it takes up a lot of space in a land fill and ground contamination.

It was synthetic Gypsum. A lot of the industry had changed over to using it. With the decrease cost of NG, it has replaced coal almost everywhere now. This has caused the Gypsum companies to have to go back to mining and quarrying natural gypsum, which is more work and not as pure as the synthetic stuff was.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Truth is producing a good is seldom clean, but people want their stuff and they want it affordable. People also like to b**ch and moan about everything wether or not they are educated on it or not. They also never contemplate what effect the changes they are demanding will have on people. They like to demand action until they get their way and when that causes a different problem they b**ch about that and demand somebody fix the problem they helped cause (same thing on the polictal side). They never think about the effects batteries and other so called "green technologies" have on the environment.

My prediction is they will continue to close coal plants until it causes instability. Then it will be a big rush to build Combined Cycle NG plants. Then that along with other regulations will cause NG prices to increase significantly. Then people will b**ch about how their utilities are so expensive, never understanding that their actions are what did this.
They will also move onto other coal users like steel mills and demand that they be closed.

 

[04FXSTS]

Over near Danville Illinois they closed a coal generating station a few years back and it is still causing problems including for Indiana. The ash is loaded with different heavy metals leaching into the ground and water supply. It is made worse because the plant buried much of this ash on the grounds right next to a river. The company that now owns the grounds now do not want to spend the money to have the ash removed and want to use a clay cap and reinforce the river bank.
The old generating station is located on the Middle fork of the Vermillion River which flows into Vermillion county Indiana where it empties into the Wabash River. Anyone that spends any time on or near any river knows about the way the banks erode and channels change normally and even more so in times of flood. I saw what a flood can do in 2018 when the Vermillion River flooded real bad, the worst since 1994 I believe it was. The county road going north (Flat Iron Road) out of Eugene was damaged by the current going across. The field on the other side of the road had sand bars in it. Jim.

 

[SgtFury]

It's going to be a long 4 years