another one

[Denny347]

He may be an IMPD Captain, but hey, he's just a person.

THE KEY is, that the system treats him EXACTLY like anybody else and his being a cop has ZERO relevance.
I suspect that won't happen.

The punishment is extremely light for OWI arrests in Indy so there is a really low bar to be met. He'll receive the same probation as everyone else.

 

[Denny347]

phylodog - the stress of the job isn't gonna be the part that changes. I suspect that you know that there's no getting around that. Cops are going to see the worst of the world , and ya can't stop that fact from happening. It sucks for the person involved, but there's a time when, just like the nuclear plant worker, you've been exposed to more than you can handle. I know an EMT that witnessed one too many drunk driving accidents as well. In his case, the breaking point was seeing a kid die because a drunk ran into the car he was riding in. He snapped and had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the guy. It was his last day in that career. If a person can't deal with their occupation without saucing it up and getting behind the wheel, (or without violating an oath to "first do no harm") then the occupation/source of the stress needs to leave their life. It sucks for the person involved - but it's the cold hard truth.

Well, society in general has no problem with getting ****faced, it's a national pastime. We have to "unteach" new recruits what our society has taught them and that is an extremely difficult task. Driving drunk is a sad consequence of an altered mind. I cannot speak for my Captain but I don't think his issues are work related. People use alcohol all the time to relax, a drink here a drink there. For many it slowly gets worse, drinking more often with more excess. It's so slow that the drinker does not realize the problem is growing until they cannot escape alcohol's grasp.

 

[phylodog]

phylodog - the stress of the job isn't gonna be the part that changes. I suspect that you know that there's no getting around that. Cops are going to see the worst of the world , and ya can't stop that fact from happening. It sucks for the person involved, but there's a time when, just like the nuclear plant worker, you've been exposed to more than you can handle. I know an EMT that witnessed one too many drunk driving accidents as well. In his case, the breaking point was seeing a kid die because a drunk ran into the car he was riding in. He snapped and had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the guy. It was his last day in that career. If a person can't deal with their occupation without saucing it up and getting behind the wheel, (or without violating an oath to "first do no harm") then the occupation/source of the stress needs to leave their life. It sucks for the person involved - but it's the cold hard truth.

I agree 100% but it's an extremely rare case where the things an officer sees or faces on the street create the amount of stress which results in destructive behavior. The biggest stresses in police work, from sea to shining sea and without exception, come from politics.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I agree 100% but it's an extremely rare case where the things an officer sees or faces on the street create the amount of stress which results in destructive behavior. The biggest stresses in police work, from sea to shining sea and without exception, come from politics.

phylodog - that's intriguing to me. ALL jobs come with political bs that is hard to handle. Granted, some more than others. I have no reason to not believe you on this - but it does beg the question: If the biggest stresses of the job are political, it would imply that they can be avoided. And if that's true, can you give us an example of what you are talking about? If it truly is political bs that causes it, then it is a systemic issue that can be fixed.

Denny - if I follow your comments - then your this person's issues don't have one thing to do with being a cop - they are simply the result of "everyday" forces. That would imply that in this case, no special treatment is needed and the person should go strait to the pokey like anyone else. For the record, I don't find that our current methods of dealing with this issue as a society are very effective. That said, there are many jobs that if you get a conviction, your career is over. Folks with a security clearance, it happens to all of the time. Anywhere that a high degree of trust is required. In this case, I've got to say that someone with an alcohol problem that doesn't have the judgment to know when to drive or not, does not deserve the authority given a law enforcement officer. Thoughts?

 

[Trigger Time]

phylodog - that's intriguing to me. ALL jobs come with political bs that is hard to handle. Granted, some more than others. I have no reason to not believe you on this - but it does beg the question: If the biggest stresses of the job are political, it would imply that they can be avoided. And if that's true, can you give us an example of what you are talking about? If it truly is political bs that causes it, then it is a systemic issue that can be fixed.

Denny - if I follow your comments - then your this person's issues don't have one thing to do with being a cop - they are simply the result of "everyday" forces. That would imply that in this case, no special treatment is needed and the person should go strait to the pokey like anyone else. For the record, I don't find that our current methods of dealing with this issue as a society are very effective. That said, there are many jobs that if you get a conviction, your career is over. Folks with a security clearance, it happens to all of the time. Anywhere that a high degree of trust is required. In this case, I've got to say that someone with an alcohol problem that doesn't have the judgment to know when to drive or not, does not deserve the authority given a law enforcement officer. Thoughts?

My thoughts? I agree. He shouldn't be able to stay a cop. There's many more just as good cndidates out there who will earn their job and not shame the badge.

 

[Trigger Time]

So if I chose not to discuss something cop-related on INGO I'm covering it up? Like doc said, you need to get out of your fantasy world. You and I might see eye-to-eye if you stopped making ridiculous suggestions for how things should be done.

I'm not perfect nor the smartest car in the room , but at least I'm offering suggestions.

 

[chocktaw2]

We used to have a Judge that had the same problem. Imagine that! You didn't want to be in court Mon. morning! It would not go good for you.

And, he was never arrested!

 

[phylodog]

phylodog - that's intriguing to me. ALL jobs come with political bs that is hard to handle. Granted, some more than others. I have no reason to not believe you on this - but it does beg the question: If the biggest stresses of the job are political, it would imply that they can be avoided. And if that's true, can you give us an example of what you are talking about? If it truly is political bs that causes it, then it is a systemic issue that can be fixed.

I'd love to. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to provide my opinion nor speak my mind about the agency I work for. To do so would leave me open to the same level of punishment as the officer this thread was created about.

 

[Denny347]

phylodog - that's intriguing to me. ALL jobs come with political bs that is hard to handle. Granted, some more than others. I have no reason to not believe you on this - but it does beg the question: If the biggest stresses of the job are political, it would imply that they can be avoided. And if that's true, can you give us an example of what you are talking about? If it truly is political bs that causes it, then it is a systemic issue that can be fixed.

Denny - if I follow your comments - then your this person's issues don't have one thing to do with being a cop - they are simply the result of "everyday" forces. That would imply that in this case, no special treatment is needed and the person should go strait to the pokey like anyone else. For the record, I don't find that our current methods of dealing with this issue as a society are very effective. That said, there are many jobs that if you get a conviction, your career is over. Folks with a security clearance, it happens to all of the time. Anywhere that a high degree of trust is required. In this case, I've got to say that someone with an alcohol problem that doesn't have the judgment to know when to drive or not, does not deserve the authority given a law enforcement officer. Thoughts?

I agree with most of that. However, the City is required to offer treatment before the employee can be fired. I have arrested 150 or so DUI's over my career so far and I never wanted the arrest to affect that person's job. My point was to keep them off the street that night, not get them fired. Some jobs will dismiss for that and some do not. They are off-duty, it doesn't really affect me working with them. On duty, well, you can guess where I stand with that.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I'd love to. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to provide my opinion nor speak my mind about the agency I work for. To do so would leave me open to the same level of punishment as the officer this thread was created about.

Totally cool - I was trying to get to the bottom of the problem. While it sounds like the person in this particular situation may not have been affected by it (sounds like their drinking issues were the result of other stressors), from what you are saying there IS a chunk of it that COULD be avoided. And I totally understand your wish not to discuss further. I respect your opinion.

Denny - there's no getting around it. Any time you arrest someone FOR ANYthING, it can't help but have an impact on their life and many times their job. Even a speeding ticket can cost a job, if someone is a professional driver (think CDL or Bus driver etc). Doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. In my mind it means that you should be even handed and fair in doing it. That's what chaps my arse when some say that they extend "professional courtesy" to cops or prosecutors or whomever. A DUI/OWI is what it is. And if someone is out there driving incapacitated, then they should be arrested and prosecuted. Doesn't matter on the job or off, or what job they have. There are innocent folks that are put in harm's way in either case. If you catch someone driving under the influence - by definition they are risking SOMEONE's life besides their own. That person deserves even handed justice.

 

[phylodog]

I totally understand your wish not to discuss further.

I'd love to discuss it further, it's just not worth getting suspended for.