Analyzing Group locations Chart

[SavageEagle]

GangstaWheel(tm)

OMG YOU ALL OWE ME TWENTY BUCKS FOR A NEW WIRELESS KEYBOARD!!!

 

[Bill of Rights]

I made you a left-handed one.

At least it's not umop apisdn.

Blessings,
B

 

[AllenM]

I have nothing to contribute but these would help. great thread

 

[WHITE_WOLFE]

I got one similar to that.

Bunch more at the link.

WhiteWolfe/Firearms/Targets - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

[Rookie]

A couple questions.

What does it mean by no follow through?

Could someone smarter than me make an actual left handed version of this? (Can I bribe you with a rep?)

TIA

 

[Surculus]

sorry I couldn't resist

 

[CouncilOfDave]

I always shoot about 6-8 inches left at 25 yards with pistol. SAO, and DAO, Glocks, M&P's, every time. I've always suspected this was my trigger finger. :::image saved:::

 

[Scutter01]

I always shoot about 6-8 inches left at 25 yards with pistol. SAO, and DAO, Glocks, M&P's, every time. I've always suspected this was my trigger finger. :::image saved:::

It's obviously your sights. I don't know how they keep mis-aligning themselves.

 

[Rookie]

I done did it myself (or had my daughter do it). Reps for me!!!

 

[dburkhead]

When I went to the range today, I shot three guns: My carry 1911, the '85 Nagant I just bought, and the .22 handgun I use for the bulk of my practice.

One thing I noticed is that with the Nagant, most of my shots fell into two specific groups. The first was well centered in the target close to my Point Of Aim. The second, however, tended to fall to the right side of my POA and stretches up and down from the vertical position of the POA (covering "heeling," "thumbing," and "tightening grip" on the Wheel of Shame).

The .22 however, showed a different pattern. A lot were near the center, just as with the Nagant, but with a "comet tail" heading to the upper left ("pushing" on the Wheel of Shame).

The patterns are really only obvious when I shoot a good bit (on the order of a full box of ammo--50 rounds or so) at one target

It seems that I make different mistakes depending on the gun in question.

 

[CandRFan]

Thanks for the info spasmo.

 

[Panama]

Cool information & helpful pistol target

How to shoot a handgun accurately by Massad Ayoob Issue #85

 

[repair]

That should be helpfull to new (and old) shooters.

 

[Steve MI]

The chart is BS 99% of all shooting errors can be corrected by propper trigger press and sight picture and nothing more.

 

[mercop]

All shooting errors can be corrected b proper Stance, Grip, Sight picture, Sight allgnment, Trigger squeeze and follow through

 

[Steve MI]

yeap.

 

[dburkhead]

All shooting errors can be corrected b proper Stance, Grip, Sight picture, Sight allgnment, Trigger squeeze and follow through

And the various mistakes one may make in those things have names like "heeling," "pushing," etc. Knowing what mistake you're making is an important step in correcting it.

Example: when I started shooting my 1911, I had a tendency to shoot low. I thought that maybe the problem was the sights weren't aligned properly. However, I saw this chart (in a much earlier thread) and considered that I might be tightening my grip on the gun instead of just squeezing the trigger. I dug out my old Jennings, which has a very stiff trigger pull, with the idea that it would exaggerate such an issue if that were what I was actually doing. And son of a gun but if that wasn't what was happening. Shooting the Jennings for a while helped me to isolate trigger squeeze from holding the gun, leading to tighter groups and POI's closer to POA.

Being able to identify just what I was doing wrong helped me get better "proper Stance, Grip, Sight picture, Sight allgnment, Trigger squeeze and follow through."

Incidentally, the current issue I need to work on seems to be anticipating recoil. I spotted that while using a friend's Grendel P11. The Grendel has an even longer and heavier trigger pull than the Jennings and I noted that the muzzle would "dip" somewhere in the middle of the pull. I'm probably "pushing" and that points where I expected the gun to fire (although I still had a lot of trigger pull left). Need to work on that.

 

[Steve MI]

And the various mistakes one may make in those things have names like "heeling," "pushing," etc. Knowing what mistake you're making is an important step in correcting it.

Example: when I started shooting my 1911, I had a tendency to shoot low. I thought that maybe the problem was the sights weren't aligned properly. However, I saw this chart (in a much earlier thread) and considered that I might be tightening my grip on the gun instead of just squeezing the trigger. I dug out my old Jennings, which has a very stiff trigger pull, with the idea that it would exaggerate such an issue if that were what I was actually doing. And son of a gun but if that wasn't what was happening. Shooting the Jennings for a while helped me to isolate trigger squeeze from holding the gun, leading to tighter groups and POI's closer to POA.
Being able to identify just what I was doing wrong helped me get better "proper Stance, Grip, Sight picture, Sight allgnment, Trigger squeeze and follow through."

Incidentally, the current issue I need to work on seems to be anticipating recoil. I spotted that while using a friend's Grendel P11. The Grendel has an even longer and heavier trigger pull than the Jennings and I noted that the muzzle would "dip" somewhere in the middle of the pull. I'm probably "pushing" and that points where I expected the gun to fire (although I still had a lot of trigger pull left). Need to work on that.

Perfect example of why its a joke you can crush and squezze a gun to death no matter how hard it makes no differance as long as you do two things line up the sights and press the trigger straight back to the rear.. period not healing shoving touching slapping mashing yanking yawning etc matter..

we have shown this time and time again..in classes same Bs as the to much trigger finger to littel trigger finger etc.. it means nothing how far in your digits are on the trigger heck you dont even need a finger to press the trigger.. a pen. stick a glow stick a rifle casing etc we have used and shown students with... shooting a handgun well amounts to this and this only sights lined up and straight press of the trigger to the rear.. nothing more nothing less.

 

[Panama]

The chart is BS 99% of all shooting errors can be corrected by propper trigger press and sight picture and nothing more.

Then don't use the chart, but I personally know shooters that it has helped, at least 1% of it anyway.
However I would certainly suggest to anyone, read the information in the posted link, me thinks he knows of what he speaks.

How to shoot a handgun accurately by Massad Ayoob Issue #85

 

[dburkhead]

Perfect example of why its a joke you can crush and squezze a gun to death no matter how hard it makes no differance as long as you do two things line up the sights and press the trigger straight back to the rear.. period not healing shoving touching slapping mashing yanking yawning etc matter..

we have shown this time and time again..in classes same Bs as the to much trigger finger to littel trigger finger etc.. it means nothing how far in your digits are on the trigger heck you dont even need a finger to press the trigger.. a pen. stick a glow stick a rifle casing etc we have used and shown students with... shooting a handgun well amounts to this and this only sights lined up and straight press of the trigger to the rear.. nothing more nothing less.

Only problem is what you're claiming here does not match with my own experience. When I first started shooting rifle, I had a tendency to use just the tip of my finger on the trigger. Maybe you can figure out why, when I did that, I had a consistent tendency to shoot to the left. No, don't bother. The reason I had such a tendency is that when I pulled the trigger that way, my finger put more pressure on the side of the trigger, literally pushing the gun to the left. Result, grouping to the left.

As I mentioned uptopic, squeezing the handle while pulling the trigger. The result was grouping low. Why was that, you ask? Because when my lower three fingers tightened, they tended to pull the barrel down slightly. This happened at the same time I was actually pulling the trigger and generally was too quick and subtle to see it. So, sure, at the very moment of the gun going off sight picture and/or alignment was off. However, what was causing it to be off at that moment (and it was only an instant, so it's hard to see exactly what was happening) is very helpful in learning what is necessary to correct it.

If, before I'd started reading groups for clues as to what flaws there are in my shooting, you had asked me if I had good sight alignment and good sight picture I would have insisted that I was. If you'd asked if I was squeezing the trigger straight back, I would have insisted that I was. But your eyes and the kinesthesia of your muscles can fool you. The pattern of holes in the target never lies.