An OC Guide to Protecting Your Rights: What to do when LEO stops you

[BigBoxaJunk]

As far as recording goes, I rock a flip-phone that doesn't record, but I always figure that if I'm in a situation with a police officer, I will project my voice loudly while carefully enunciating my words. Then, he'll believe he is being recorded, and will behave accordingly.

 

[actaeon277]

As far as recording goes, I rock a flip-phone that doesn't record, but I always figure that if I'm in a situation with a police officer, I will project my voice loudly while carefully enunciating my words. Then, he'll believe he is being recorded, and will behave accordingly.

You know they make these cheap audio recorders now, can run for days.

 

[Burnsy]

You know they make these cheap audio recorders now, can run for days.

Yep, I use one from walgreens. Picked it up for $30, records for....I forget but it is well over a week straight if I recall. They work pretty good! Added bonus if you forgot what someone told you during the day, you have it. .

 

[tomrey]

thanks great information

 

[apovinelli]

I think it is important to note that the 5th amendment is a right given to us by the constitution and that the constitution also gives states the ability to create laws and policy that is not specifically covered in the constitution.

Use this for an example. A subject is pulled over for improper headlights (1isnot working). The officer smells the odor of an alcoholic beverage coming from within the vehicle. The officer asks the person to step out. The person ignores the officer. The officer asks sever times more to step out of the vehicle. The person continues to ignore the officer. The officer opens the door to to indicate their stepping out of the vehicle is wanted. Still, no cooperation. That person gets physically removed from the vehicle. That is first misdemeanor, disobeying a lawful command, impeding an investigation. (case law says a cop can make everyone in a car get out)

Then that person refuses to do field sobriety tests and states they are going to drag it out. That is fine, they can do that. They are read implied consent, refusing a chemical test is an automatic 1 year driving suspension, they understand it and will not give consent for a chemical test. Still nothing illegal.

Officer takes person to hospital for a blood draw. Person will not tell hospital their name, and still has not given it to police. Officer tells person they have to, it is the law. They refuse to anyway. Misdemeanor number 2, refusing to identify.

Officer gets a a warrant for Jon/Jane Doe. Officer gets blood. Person is looking at misdemeanor number 3, OWI.

Full cooperation would have, at the very worst, resulted in 1 misdemeanor OWI. If field sobriety tests were passed, maybe no charges at all.

Moral of the story, some things require cooperation and or some information...according to the law, state law, but still the law.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I think it is important to note that the 5th amendment is a right given to us by the constitution and that the constitution also gives states the ability to create laws and policy that is not specifically covered in the constitution.

Use this for an example. A subject is pulled over for improper headlights (1isnot working). The officer smells the odor of an alcoholic beverage coming from within the vehicle. The officer asks the person to step out. The person ignores the officer. The officer asks sever times more to step out of the vehicle. The person continues to ignore the officer. The officer opens the door to to indicate their stepping out of the vehicle is wanted. Still, no cooperation. That person gets physically removed from the vehicle. That is first misdemeanor, disobeying a lawful command, impeding an investigation. (case law says a cop can make everyone in a car get out)

Then that person refuses to do field sobriety tests and states they are going to drag it out. That is fine, they can do that. They are read implied consent, refusing a chemical test is an automatic 1 year driving suspension, they understand it and will not give consent for a chemical test. Still nothing illegal.

Officer takes person to hospital for a blood draw. Person will not tell hospital their name, and still has not given it to police. Officer tells person they have to, it is the law. They refuse to anyway. Misdemeanor number 2, refusing to identify.

Officer gets a a warrant for Jon/Jane Doe. Officer gets blood. Person is looking at misdemeanor number 3, OWI.

Full cooperation would have, at the very worst, resulted in 1 misdemeanor OWI. If field sobriety tests were passed, maybe no charges at all.

Moral of the story, some things require cooperation and or some information...according to the law, state law, but still the law.

The Constitution does not grant rights, it recognizes them. And OCing is not a crime so there are much different outcomes than someone driving while over the limit.

 

[AndersonIN]

I think it is important to note that the 5th amendment is a right given to us by the constitution and that the constitution also gives states the ability to create laws and policy that is not specifically covered in the constitution.

Use this for an example. A subject is pulled over for improper headlights (1isnot working). The officer smells the odor of an alcoholic beverage coming from within the vehicle. The officer asks the person to step out. The person ignores the officer. The officer asks sever times more to step out of the vehicle. The person continues to ignore the officer. The officer opens the door to to indicate their stepping out of the vehicle is wanted. Still, no cooperation. That person gets physically removed from the vehicle. That is first misdemeanor, disobeying a lawful command, impeding an investigation. (case law says a cop can make everyone in a car get out)

Then that person refuses to do field sobriety tests and states they are going to drag it out. That is fine, they can do that. They are read implied consent, refusing a chemical test is an automatic 1 year driving suspension, they understand it and will not give consent for a chemical test. Still nothing illegal.

Officer takes person to hospital for a blood draw. Person will not tell hospital their name, and still has not given it to police. Officer tells person they have to, it is the law. They refuse to anyway. Misdemeanor number 2, refusing to identify.

Officer gets a a warrant for Jon/Jane Doe. Officer gets blood. Person is looking at misdemeanor number 3, OWI.

Full cooperation would have, at the very worst, resulted in 1 misdemeanor OWI. If field sobriety tests were passed, maybe no charges at all.

Moral of the story, some things require cooperation and or some information...according to the law, state law, but still the law.

Wow! Hope you didn't hurt your back with that stretch!

 

[jedi]

I think it is important to note that the 5th amendment is a right given to us by the constitution and that the constitution also gives states the ability to create laws and policy that is not specifically covered in the constitution.

--snip--

Moral of the story, some things require cooperation and or some information...according to the law, state law, but still the law.

The Constitution does not grant rights, it recognizes them. And OCing is not a crime so there are much different outcomes than someone driving while over the limit.

@apovinelli thank you for your example and how it can backfire provided you keep quiet. However as Titanium_Frost points out wea re looking at 2 different events. In yours the Jone Doe has already broken the law (ie. DUI and speeding) while the original post is for those that OC (which is NOT a crime) and their encounter with LEOs.

 

[apovinelli]

The video was about not talking to police, guilty or innocent. The point was that silence can get you into more trouble. There are times when it is required. In the OC area...in Indiana a cop knowing you have a hand gun, in public, is reason enough to ask for ID. Failure to give that to them could be bad news. It is clear that it depends on which cop you get on which day.

 

[jedi]

The video was about not talking to police, guilty or innocent. The point was that silence can get you into more trouble. There are times when it is required. In the OC area...in Indiana a cop knowing you have a hand gun, in public, is reason enough to ask for ID. Failure to give that to them could be bad news. It is clear that it depends on which cop you get on which day.

A cop can only legally ask to see your LTCH and provided you are not doing anything illegal said cop has no legal authority to ask for your ID (ie. driver's license and/or state ID). You are under no obligation to talk to him. Hand him the LTCH and once that is done and s/he has verfiied the info you can walk away (legally). Will you that all depends if the LEO is a JBT or not.

 

[apovinelli]

A cop can only legally ask to see your LTCH and provided you are not doing anything illegal said cop has no legal authority to ask for your ID (ie. driver's license and/or state ID). You are under no obligation to talk to him. Hand him the LTCH and once that is done and s/he has verfiied the info you can walk away (legally). Will you that all depends if the LEO is a JBT or not.

and how does said cop know the license to carry handed to him belongs to the person who handed it to him?

 

[ATM]

and how does said cop know the license to carry handed to him belongs to the person who handed it to him?

Without RAS of some alternate identity, the cop has no further business of inquiry or investigation.

Not knowing something cannot by itself constitute justifiable grounds for further detainment.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

and how does said cop know the license to carry handed to him belongs to the person who handed it to him?

It COUNTS as ID. If I possess a valid LTCH then by all accounts I am that person, the same as if I had a DL.

It is not my problem that the state doesn't put our pictures on it and prints it off of cheap pink paper.

ETA: I have refused to identify myself to police before and eventually they walk away/let you go about your business.

 

[Jerchap2]

This is great advice. I will not be able to remember all of it, so I am going to print it and keep it with me for reference.

 

[wrnyhuise]

very well written in my opinion. I know i am new to the forums but have had many people i know have to deal with this in the past. The list you wrote for the most part covers your butt for anything. I pray this will stop happening to good people but until it does just know you can never document the event too much.

 

[dbiernesser]

As someone who is about to get a license to carry. (Hopefully) This is such wonderful information to have. Love this site and all its great info! Thanks!

 

[Pinchaser]

There are some stickies on the site, pertaining to use of the site itself, that are useful. This one? Probably should be deleted. The word paranoid comes to mind. I'm not sure why someone chose to make a sticky out of it.

 

[ATM]

There are some stickies on the site, pertaining to use of the site itself, that are useful. This one? Probably should be deleted. The word paranoid comes to mind.

Deleted, why? Because you think informed and prepared = paranoid?

I'm not sure why someone chose to make a sticky out of it.

Because it contains useful information that many here appreciate, I suppose.

 

[actaeon277]

There are some stickies on the site, pertaining to use of the site itself, that are useful. This one? Probably should be deleted. The word paranoid comes to mind. I'm not sure why someone chose to make a sticky out of it.

I have first aid kits, fire extinguishers, and weapons. Does that mean i'm paranoid?

 

[jedi]

There are some stickies on the site, pertaining to use of the site itself, that are useful. This one? Probably should be deleted. The word paranoid comes to mind. I'm not sure why someone chose to make a sticky out of it.

Thank you for taking time to read the post and listening to the youtube video.

Deleted, why? Because you think informed and prepared = paranoid?


Because it contains useful information that many here appreciate, I suppose.

I have first aid kits, fire extinguishers, and weapons. Does that mean i'm paranoid?

Yes you are but we already knew that.

However could you, ATM and Pinchaser please debate the issue in a new thread. STCIKYs are meant for information on the OP and any Q&As more than just debate so that other members can easily see the OP and Q&As.

Thanks!