An OC Guide to Protecting Your Rights: What to do when LEO stops you

[Anima mundi]

Why would the feds rule on a matter for the state?

I'm not sure on the specifics because I Am Not A Lawyer but civil suits can be filed in federal courts when the dispute explicitly involves federal law (the US Constitution being the big one) because federal law is meant to trump state laws when they contradict each other.

The long and short of it is that when you can't rely on your local lawman to respect your basic rights, you take the case upstairs to the guy who'll ruin his life if he doesn't.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm not sure on the specifics because I Am Not A Lawyer but civil suits can be filed in federal courts when the dispute explicitly involves federal law (the US Constitution being the big one) because federal law is meant to trump state laws when they contradict each other.

The long and short of it is that when you can't rely on your local lawman to respect your basic rights, you take the case upstairs to the guy who'll ruin his life if he doesn't.

You'd have to take it up with State police, or State judges.
Believe it or not, the Feds do not have all encompassing authority.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Thanks for the welcome! It's nice to be among like-minded locals.

I would also give my license upon request, but then I try to defer to the least confrontational option whenever possible. That said, several federal courts have determined that the simple presence of a firearm does not constitute reasonable suspicion. Same way operating a motor vehicle does not constitute reasonable suspicion.

You wouldn't happen to have the name of those cases would you?

Why would the feds rule on a matter for the state?

They generally can't/don't, but see below. Or see McDonald v City of Chicago.

You'd have to take it up with State police, or State judges.
Believe it or not, the Feds do not have all encompassing authority.

Not always. You can I believe file directly in fed court for a Constitutional rights violation. If not you can appeal to the federal level. And the courts can decide using state law if a persons rights were violated. For instance in OH a person can open carry without a license/permit. There have been a couple of fed court decisions that an officer detaining someone solely for open carry was a violation of their 4th Amendment rights via state law.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...carry-of-guns-where-such-open-carry-is-legal/
Open carry arrest in Ohio nets $3.6M lawsuit | GunsSaveLife.com
And one out of CO.
Open gun carrier wins settlement in Corvallis unlawful detainment case

A different circuit has ruled the opposite though in MI.
Federal court says police can stop open carriers

 

[Anima mundi]

You wouldn't happen to have the name of those cases would you?

Ye.

United States v. Black
Fourth Circuit Finds That Carrying A Firearm In An Open-Carry State Does Not Create Reasonable Suspicion

Third, it is undisputed that under the laws of North Carolina, which permit its residents to openly carry firearms . . . Troupe’s gun was legally possessed and displayed. The Government contends that because other laws prevent convicted felons from possessing guns, the officers could not know whether Troupe was lawfully in possession of the gun until they performed a records check. . . . We are not persuaded. Being a felon in possession of a firearm is not the default status. More importantly, where a state permits individuals to openly carry firearms, the exercise of this right, without more, cannot justify an investigatory detention. Permitting such a justification would eviscerate Fourth Amendment protections for lawfully armed individuals in those states.

St. John v. McColley (in this case the court cited several other court decisions which supported its conclusion)

Mr. St. John's lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention.

It is worth noting, as you said, that different circuit courts come out on different sides of this debate, but I'll err on the side of 2nd/4th sanctity decisions on this one. Especially in a state like Indiana, where we've done some pretty extreme things like make it explicitly legal to use force to resist unlawful force from a public servant.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Ye.

United States v. Black
Fourth Circuit Finds That Carrying A Firearm In An Open-Carry State Does Not Create Reasonable Suspicion


St. John v. McColley (in this case the court cited several other court decisions which supported its conclusion)


It is worth noting, as you said, that different circuit courts come out on different sides of this debate, but I'll err on the side of 2nd/4th sanctity decisions on this one. Especially in a state like Indiana, where we've done some pretty extreme things like make it explicitly legal to use force to resist unlawful force from a public servant.

North Carolina allows open carry without a permit, so big difference. The default isn't a crime, unlike Indiana where the license makes you the exception to the statute.

 

[Ddillard]

Very good info! It needs to be brought to the forefront. I love the constituutional precedence of the statements. Thank you for posting.

 

[Jimb]

Very good info! Thanks
Hands on wheel and politeness good a mile to

 

[FrankC]

Great info thanks for posting

 

[mergatroid]

OP link is dead. found the video. FYI. Great video on "Never talk to the police".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

 

[jedi]

thanks sadly the post is so old i can NOT edit it anymore.

MODS can you?

 

[mergatroid]

thanks sadly the post is so old i can NOT edit it anymore.

MODS can you?

This thread is moldy and oldie. Started in 2010? Any current info?

Question: If a LEO stop you at the gas station or grocery and asks to see your ID and Permit what is the appropriate response? Thread is so old and long, I could not find the answer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ATM]

...Question: If a LEO stop you at the gas station or grocery and asks to see your ID and Permit what is the appropriate response? ...

"Why am I being detained?" is generally the proper response.

If they insist, roll your eyes and show them your license to carry.

No reason to provide further ID than that.

 

[jdthieke]

Common sense and respect goes a long way. Agree with everything in the above post, but compose yourself respectfully to avoid unnecessary issues.

 

[cdhayes2]

Common sense and respect goes a long way. Agree with everything in the above post, but compose yourself respectfully to avoid unnecessary issues.

Couldn't agree more with this. A lot of times people carry themselves in a manner that makes it look they're trying to put the officer in their place and that isn't going to help the situation. Just my opinion though.

 

[Beastmodeski]

Thanks for the information. These are all good things to know and learn. Didn’t know about some of these.