2022 Legislative Session Thread

[cbhausen]

Robb Kendall was on the Hammer and Nigel show on WIBC this evening and he absolutely excoriated everyone from Governor Holcomb to superintendent Carter down to Senator Brown. Really ripped them all a new one. Bravo, Rob Kendall.

 

[04FXSTS]

I have a question, do all committees stack the pro speakers first and anti speakers last? Or is this something else Liz Brown did to try to influence the outcome? Jim.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I have a question, do all committees stack the pro speakers first and anti speakers last? Or is this something else Liz Brown did to try to influence the outcome? Jim.

I've only seen support go first in this committee with this committee chair. I've seen oppose then support, and I've alternate the two.

This... individual was openly hostile towards those testifying who were pro-2A in both the SB 14 and HB 1077 hearings.

(If I posted this last night please forgive me, it's been a long couple of days and I'm playing the age card.)

A House Rep (you'd recognize the name) came up to me after I was out of room 130 and in area outside (TVs play the live feed in those areas.) He told me the conduct of Brown and her cronies was completely unacceptable. This could be a factor in 1077 being moved to the new committee.

 

[Jeepster48439]

SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
(in my best Gomer Pyle voice)

WHTR gets it wrong again.

'Constitutional Carry' bill passes out of Indiana Senate committee

Under House Bill 1077, dubbed the "Constitutonal Carry" bill, anyone 18 and older can carry a gun without a permit, with a few exceptions.

www.wthr.com

 

[KellyinAvon]

Happy Friday fans of the HOUSE VERSION of HB 1077. No session today but there are folks there to answer the phone.

Two opportunities: your Senator (it'll be the legislative assistant.) Please support the house-passed version of HB 1077.

Senator Bray's contact info below. From what I've picked up: he's seen the light. Something along the lines of: thank you for moving HB 1077 to the Rules and Legislative Procedures Committee. I know I can count on your support after what happened in the Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.

Be polite, be professional, be nice. We already get painted with the same brush as the ******* idiot from Hoosier Gun Rights (did I mention he is a ******* idiot?)

Phones open at 0800!!

Indiana General Assembly

iga.in.gov

Contact Information​

200 W. Washington St.
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Phone: 800-382-9467
or 317-232-9400
Email: Senator.Bray@iga.in.gov

Legislative Assistant:
Kayla Caviness
Phone: 317-232-9416
Email: Kayla.Caviness@iga.in.gov

 

[Jaybird1980]

Happy Friday fans of the HOUSE VERSION of HB 1077. No session today but there are folks there to answer the phone.

Two opportunities: your Senator (it'll be the legislative assistant.) Please support the house-passed version of HB 1077.

Senator Bray's contact info below. From what I've picked up: he's seen the light. Something along the lines of: thank you for moving HB 1077 to the Rules and Legislative Procedures Committee. I know I can count on your support after what happened in the Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.

Be polite, be professional, be nice. We already get painted with the same brush as the ******* idiot from Hoosier Gun Rights (did I mention he is a ******* idiot?)

Phones open at 0800!!

Indiana General Assembly

iga.in.gov

Contact Information​

200 W. Washington St.
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Phone: 800-382-9467
or 317-232-9400
Email: Senator.Bray@iga.in.gov

Legislative Assistant:
Kayla Caviness
Phone: 317-232-9416
Email: Kayla.Caviness@iga.in.gov

Did I miss this part somewhere?
I hope it's true.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Did I miss this part somewhere?
I hope it's true.

I hope so too. Like I said it’s what I’ve picked up. I’ve been wrong before, but I’m not the Intel community. I haven’t been wrong about everything since World War II

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

Take a look at Guys posting on his FB page... It appears good ol' downtown Lizzy Brown violated some rules with her antics the other night. Thanks Liz!

https://www.facebook.com/The2AProject/

There may be some hope.

IMO, Republican Leadership should take her to task over the way she conducted that meeting. Shameful. Pull her Chairmanship.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I was unaware that the HB 1077 language could be added into another senate bill. If there was more time that could be an option I guess.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Take a look at Guys posting on his FB page... It appears good ol' downtown Lizzy Brown violated some rules with her antics the other night. Thanks Liz!

https://www.facebook.com/The2AProject/

There may be some hope.

IMO, Republican Leadership should take her to task over the way she conducted that meeting. Shameful. Pull her Chairmanship.

I saw that post this morning. I’m not sure what this part means:

“For that reason, the bill was diverted to the Senate Rules & Legislative Procedure Committee and missed Thursday's deadline for submission of committee reports.”

Does it mean the bill was diverted but still missed the deadline? So no effect on the way the amended bill from the committee turned out?

At any rate, hope springs eternal—it’s still alive and can be amended on 2nd reading, if enough republicans are willing to go against the governor’s wishes.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Happy Friday fans of the HOUSE VERSION of HB 1077. No session today but there are folks there to answer the phone.

Two opportunities: your Senator (it'll be the legislative assistant.) Please support the house-passed version of HB 1077.

Senator Bray's contact info below. From what I've picked up: he's seen the light. Something along the lines of: thank you for moving HB 1077 to the Rules and Legislative Procedures Committee. I know I can count on your support after what happened in the Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.

Be polite, be professional, be nice. We already get painted with the same brush as the ******* idiot from Hoosier Gun Rights (did I mention he is a ******* idiot?)

Phones open at 0800!!

Indiana General Assembly

iga.in.gov

Contact Information​

200 W. Washington St.
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Phone: 800-382-9467
or 317-232-9400
Email: Senator.Bray@iga.in.gov

Legislative Assistant:
Kayla Caviness
Phone: 317-232-9416
Email: Kayla.Caviness@iga.in.gov

Well it wasn't Kayla, but I got person!

 

[JEBland]

Another sample email along with talking points (is calling better?)

Senator,

Support HB 1077 Firearms Matters!

This bill was authored by Representative Smaltz and co-authored by Representatives Lehman, Lucas, Snow, Carbaugh, Lindauer, Engleman, Gutwein, Wesco, Teshka, May, Behning, Heaton, Frye, Mayfield, Hostettler, Jeter, Judy, Abbott, Lauer, Barrett, Leonard, Cook, Davis, Ledbetter, VanNatter, Heine, Manning, Davisson, Payne, and Borders. HB 1077 is sponsored by Senators Koch, Tomes, Houchin, Messmer, Byrne, Crane, Garten, and M. Young.

HB 1077 as passed by the Indiana House codifies the lawful carry of handguns and comes at a time when the essential right of self-defense has never been more important. This bill affects the law-abiding citizens of Indiana, not the violent criminals who are overwhelmingly prohibited possessors of firearms, and don’t obey the law.

One primary claim of the law enforcement officers who oppose this bill is that the removal of the licensing system will endanger officers. There is no data to support this. The data that does exist shows no conclusive trend across states and in fact no statistically significant difference for the states that have passed permitless carry even from states that did not have protections like those provided by Pinner V. State (2017). The answer is rather simple: Criminals don’t abide by licensing schemes. Murderers, rapists, and gang members do not concern themselves with the small penalty of carrying unlawfully (by the current licensing standards) compared to their actual crimes against others.

Even the law enforcement officers who objected to the bill in the Jan 5th house committee hearing admit that the current law doesn’t actually prevent criminals or endanger officers. Chief Pat Flannelly of Lafayette came to oppose the bill in the Jan 5th House discussion of this bill and during his discussion he also stated that he is unaware of any statistically significant data in either direction for the more than 40% of US states that have already passed this style of legislation. Sgt. Hensler of the Fort Wayne Gang & Violent Crime Unit stated that gangs use members with clean records to carry-out straw purchases and even encourage their members with clean backgrounds to get a license to carry a handgun under the current law in order to shift who is the owner of a firearm with current encounters with law enforcement. That is, the criminals have already determined how to game the current system – it only harms law abiding citizens who are forced to submit to biometric data collection and delays from the state. The same sergeant stated “They’re human beings. Having [a license to carry] doesn’t encourage or discourage crime.”

The second primary complaint from the law enforcement in the Senate hearing was that it shifts the burden from the individual to the state. The state has effectively unlimited resources compared to the typical civilian – the burden must be on the state. Opposing this is opposing the entire history and basis of law in the United States. The final testimony of the senate committee hearing was from Indiana State Police (ISP) superintendent Doug Carter, who used his time to attack these very principles.

To sample just some of the egregious comments by ISP Superintendent Doug Carter on Feb 23rd, 2022:

• Early in his testimony “we are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent, no matter what we do,” but it’s not entirely clear who the “we” are in that statement. Shortly thereafter he stated, “Switching the burden from the individual who applied to the permit is wrong on so many levels.” Superintendent Carter does not believe that the burden of proof lies with the state. This is an insult to the very core of our judicial system. Our rights extend until we harm others. Superintendent Carter seems to believe that we civilians truly are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent and that lawful individuals should be punished for the sake of criminals.
• “You should never allow us … to arbitrarily access a person’s information associated with their criminal history.” But the License To Carry a Handgun (LTCH) registration system exactly the database and probing of criminal history that Superintendent Carter warns us against. He seems to be of the position that keeping a database of criminal history and biometric data of law-abiding citizens is acceptable.
• He also implied that handgun violence in the aftermath of this bill is the fault of those eligible to receive the LTCH, but again this misleading conjecture is not supported by the data for states with similar systems to those proposed by HB 1077 even in those states that did not have the protections provided in Pinner v. State (2017).

Despite what Superintendent Carter implies, not all law enforcement opposes HB 1077. Sheriff Quakenbush who was duly elected by the residents of Hamilton County and currently serves his constituents and vehemently defends their rights. We law-abiding citizens are appreciate the comments by the sheriff and his defense of his community and ours.

A third junk claim is that individuals have no way of knowing if they would be eligible under the current licensing system. The current licensing system will stay in place – anyone unsure of eligibility is able to simply follow the licensing system or contact a local attorney to verify. Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse for breaking it. The firearms community in Indiana is filled with Hoosiers who encourage safety, responsibility, and training through discussion, fellowship, and mentorship. Individuals are responsible for their own actions, and the community of Hoosier gun owners lives and breathes this.

There are currently 21 States with permit-less/no license carry of handguns. Those who opposed such legislation predicted dire consequences, as they do for any bill remotely considered Pro-2nd Amendment and Pro-Article 1, Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution. Observation shows this is not the case, as does data from FBI Uniform Crime Reporting. This is further proved by the fact that no State which has repealed its handgun licensing scheme, has re-instated it because it drove an increase in criminal activity. Put simply: the law-abiding don’t commit crimes. Criminals commit crimes and are undeterred by licensing schemes.

HB 1077 does not change the definition of “proper person” that currently exists, nor does it make it lawful to possess a firearm when an individual is currently a prohibited possessor. The licensing scheme requires submitting fingerprints to the state. Those of us eligible for the current license are not criminals; we should not need to be “booked” by the state in order to enjoy our rights to carry a firearm. The collection of biometric data and wait times at the convenience of how many fingerprinting appointments are available and how “busy” the state claims to be are an undue burden on your law-abiding constituents.

Over the past decade Indiana has passed several Pro-2nd Amendment and Pro-Article 1, Section 32 bills into law. These include: the law forbidding the prohibition of firearms stored in vehicles in employer’s parking lots (2010), the firearms law preemption statute (2011), allowing firearms to be stored in vehicles on school property (2014), allowing an individual with an order of protection against an abuser carry a handgun without a license (2017), and the strengthening of the language and due process protections under the “Laird Law”, and “Church Carry” (2019). Again, the dire consequences predicted by those who oppose any law that supports the Right to Keep and Bear Arms simply did not happen, and will not happen with the passage of HB 1077.

Of the 21 States with Constitutional Carry of handguns, 20 previously had handgun licensing requirements. Zero States have reinstated the licensing requirement. I urge you to support HB 1077. Indiana is overdue to join our fellow states in this policy. In 2017, the Indiana Supreme Court defended Hoosier rights. Today, you have the same opportunity to reaffirm our rights by supporting HB 1077.

I’m sure I can count on your support with this vital legislation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this,
Name
Contact info

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Another sample email along with talking points (is calling better?)

Senator,

Support HB 1077 Firearms Matters!

…

I’m sure I can count on your support with this vital legislation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this,
Name
Contact info

This is a very well written letter. My cynical side wonders though: how many legislators that will get a letter like this will even read it, much less have their minds changed by it? By no means do I mean to insult you or anything. I’m not saying don’t send it. By all means, send it. But (again, my cynicism is in over drive here) I think you’ve put much more effort into writing it than the recipient will take to read and consider it.

Here’s the tact I took. Sen. Koch is my state senator and was on the Judiciary Committee the other night. I thanked him for supporting the bill and not voting for the amendment. I simply encouraged him to support efforts to amend it back to the original language when the time comes.

 

[JEBland]

This is a very well written letter. My cynical side wonders though: how many legislators that will get a letter like this will even read it, much less have their minds changed by it? By no means do I mean to insult you or anything. I’m not saying don’t send it. By all means, send it. But (again, my cynicism is in over drive here) I think you’ve put much more effort into writing it than the recipient will take to read and consider it.

Here’s the tact I took. Sen. Koch is my state senator and was on the Judiciary Committee the other night. I thanked him for supporting the bill and not voting for the amendment. I simply encouraged him to support efforts to amend it back to the original language when the time comes.

Thank you for the compliment. For the criticism, I agree. I hope that if nothing else, it provides talking points for conversation with other people in real life (perhaps a more useful purpose). I unabashedly borrowed from Kelly's samples upthread then just tweaked & added my own comments.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

FWIW:

Indiana Senate leader says Constitutional Carry not dead yet

bearingarms.com

 

[lrdudley]

Despite what Superintendent Carter implies, not all law enforcement opposes HB 1077. Sheriff Quakenbush who was duly elected by the residents of Hamilton County and currently serves his constituents and vehemently defends their rights. We law-abiding citizens are appreciate the comments by the sheriff and his defense of his community and ours.

Not an English major, but does the word "are" belong in the last sentence?

 

[JEBland]

Not an English major, but does the word "are" belong in the last sentence?

Nah. 100% a typo. Below is what I set to my Senator, who's not on the committee. You should proof read it before sending, too.

Based on that article, from @GodFearinGunTotin , I'm not sure it means anything, but we can try.

Senator,

Support HB 1077 Firearms Matters!

Below is a lengthy letter detailing why I believe this bill deserves your support. I’m sure I can count on your support with this vital legislation.

Thank you. Your constituent,
Name
Contact Info



This bill was authored by Representative Smaltz and co-authored by Representatives Lehman, Lucas, Snow, Carbaugh, Lindauer, Engleman, Gutwein, Wesco, Teshka, May, Behning, Heaton, Frye, Mayfield, Hostettler, Jeter, Judy, Abbott, Lauer, Barrett, Leonard, Cook, Davis, Ledbetter, VanNatter, Heine, Manning, Davisson, Payne, and Borders. HB 1077 is sponsored by Senators Koch, Tomes, Houchin, Messmer, Byrne, Crane, Garten, and M. Young.

HB 1077 as passed by the Indiana House codifies the lawful carry of handguns and comes at a time when the essential right of self-defense has never been more important. This bill affects the law-abiding citizens of Indiana, not the violent criminals who are overwhelmingly prohibited possessors of firearms, and don’t obey the law.

One primary claim of the law enforcement officers who oppose this bill is that the removal of the licensing system will endanger officers. There is no data to support this. The data that does exist shows no conclusive trend across states and in fact no statistically significant difference for the states that have passed permitless carry even from states that did not have protections like those provided by Pinner V. State (2017). The answer is rather simple: Criminals don’t abide by licensing schemes. Murderers, rapists, and gang members do not concern themselves with the small penalty of carrying unlawfully (by the current licensing standards) compared to their actual crimes against others.

Even the law enforcement officers who objected to the bill in the Jan 5th house committee hearing admit that the current law doesn’t actually prevent criminals or endanger officers. Chief Pat Flannelly of Lafayette came to oppose the bill in the Jan 5th House discussion of this bill and during his discussion he also stated that he is unaware of any statistically significant data in either direction for the more than 40% of US states that have already passed this style of legislation. Sgt. Hensler of the Fort Wayne Gang & Violent Crime Unit stated that gangs use members with clean records to carry-out straw purchases and even encourage their members with clean backgrounds to get a license to carry a handgun under the current law in order to shift who is the owner of a firearm with current encounters with law enforcement. That is, the criminals have already determined how to game the current system – it only harms law abiding citizens who are forced to submit to biometric data collection and delays from the state. The same sergeant stated “They’re human beings. Having [a license to carry] doesn’t encourage or discourage crime.”

The second primary complaint from the law enforcement in the Senate hearing was that it shifts the burden from the individual to the state. The state has effectively unlimited resources compared to the typical civilian – the burden must be on the state. Opposing this is opposing the entire history and basis of law in the United States. The final testimony of the senate committee hearing was from Indiana State Police (ISP) superintendent Doug Carter, who used his time to attack these very principles.

To sample just some of the egregious comments by ISP Superintendent Doug Carter on Feb 23rd, 2022:

• Early in his testimony “we are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent, no matter what we do,” but it’s not entirely clear who the “we” are in that statement. Shortly thereafter he stated, “Switching the burden from the individual who applied to the permit is wrong on so many levels.” Superintendent Carter does not believe that the burden of proof lies with the state. This is an insult to the very core of our judicial system. Our rights extend until we harm others. Superintendent Carter seems to believe that we civilians truly are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent and that lawful individuals should be punished for the sake of criminals.
• “You should never allow us … to arbitrarily access a person’s information associated with their criminal history.” But the License To Carry a Handgun (LTCH) registration system exactly the database and probing of criminal history that Superintendent Carter warns us against. He seems to be of the position that keeping a database of criminal history and biometric data of law-abiding citizens is acceptable.
• He also implied that handgun violence in the aftermath of this bill is the fault of those eligible to receive the LTCH, but again this misleading conjecture is not supported by the data for states with similar systems to those proposed by HB 1077 even in those states that did not have the protections provided in Pinner v. State (2017).

Despite what Superintendent Carter implies, not all law enforcement opposes HB 1077. Sheriff Quakenbush who was duly elected by the residents of Hamilton County currently serves his constituents and vehemently defends their rights. We law-abiding citizens appreciate the comments by the sheriff and his defense of his community and ours.

A third junk claim is that individuals have no way of knowing if they would be eligible under the current licensing system. The current licensing system will stay in place – anyone unsure of eligibility is able to simply follow the licensing system or contact a local attorney to verify. Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse for breaking it. The firearms community in Indiana is filled with Hoosiers who encourage safety, responsibility, and training through discussion, fellowship, and mentorship. Individuals are responsible for their own actions - The community of Hoosier gun owners live and breathe this philosophy.

There are currently 21 States with permit-less/no license carry of handguns. Those who opposed such legislation predicted dire consequences, as they do for any bill remotely considered Pro-2nd Amendment and Pro-Article 1, Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution. Observation shows this is not the case, as does data from FBI Uniform Crime Reporting. This is further proved by the fact that no State which has repealed its handgun licensing scheme, has re-instated it because it drove an increase in criminal activity. Put simply: the law-abiding don’t commit crimes. Criminals commit crimes and are undeterred by licensing schemes.

HB 1077 does not change the definition of “proper person” that currently exists, nor does it make it lawful to possess a firearm when an individual is currently a prohibited possessor. The licensing scheme requires submitting fingerprints to the state. Those of us eligible for the current license are not criminals; we should not need to be “booked” by the state in order to enjoy our rights to carry a firearm. The collection of biometric data and wait times at the convenience of how many fingerprinting appointments are available and how “busy” the state claims to be are an undue burden on your law-abiding constituents.

Over the past decade Indiana has passed several Pro-2nd Amendment and Pro-Article 1, Section 32 bills into law. These include: the law forbidding the prohibition of firearms stored in vehicles in employer’s parking lots (2010), the firearms law preemption statute (2011), allowing firearms to be stored in vehicles on school property (2014), allowing an individual with an order of protection against an abuser carry a handgun without a license (2017), and the strengthening of the language and due process protections under the “Laird Law”, and “Church Carry” (2019). Again, the dire consequences predicted by those who oppose any law that supports the Right to Keep and Bear Arms simply did not happen and will not happen with the passage of HB 1077.

Of the 21 States with Constitutional Carry of handguns, 20 previously had handgun licensing requirements. Zero States have reinstated the licensing requirement. I urge you to support HB 1077. Indiana is overdue to join our fellow states in this policy. In 2017, the Indiana Supreme Court defended Hoosier rights. Today, you have the same opportunity to reaffirm our rights by supporting HB 1077 and reaching out to your collaborators on the committee.

I’m sure I can count on your support with this vital legislation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this,
Name
Contact Info

 

[2in1evtime]

 

[ancjr]

Yes. Make him famous for this.

 

[gregr]

Got this recently from NRA-I used their contact form to contact my State Senator.

Indiana: Ask Senator to Amend HB 1077 Back to Constitutional Carry​

On February 23rd, the Senate Judiciary Committee destroyed the intent of House Bill 1077, constitutional carry, by removing the language of the original bill at the request of the Holcomb administration, and replacing it with a new process which still requires law-abiding citizens to obtain a License to Carry Handgun. The amended bill creates a new process by which a person can receive a provisional license prior to being granted a permanent license.

Despite strong opposition from gun rights supporters on the committee, the bill was amended with the help of Chair Liz Brown, Sen. Mike Bohacek, and Sen. Susan Glick.

This fight is not over. NRA is working with pro-gun Senators and the original authors of HB 1077 to author an amendment to be offered on second reading on the floor of the Senate to restore the original language of the bill, which will receive a vote in the full Senate.

It is time for the Senate to step up and let Hoosiers know where they truly stand in regards to their Second Amendment rights. Please contact your state senator and ask them to SUPPORT amending HB 1077 to its original form and to vote for passage.