Why all the hate on .40

[Jay Gnome]

It is pretty much that it has all the issues with an barely any advantages of 10mm, although from what I understand most 10mm is loaded to a similar spec to 40 S&W which makes the entire argument really pointless. If you like it then its fine, it will put holes in things just as much as anything else

 

[Jmtbug21]

Careful if you plan on putting a light on the rail. For whatever reason G22 and rail mounted lights do not play well together. I have 2 and put lights on both but removed them. From what I can remember off the top of my head, it damages something permanently. May want to do a quick Google of that though.

When I was a LEO, we were issued Gen 4 G22's for my first few years before we switched to Gen 4 G17's. A few of our G22's had issues of short stroking (FTFs) with mounted lights and using our anemic American Eagle range ammo. The problem went away when we used our hotter duty ammo.

Anyway, I bought back the G22 I was issued and have since added a few more 40s but I own many more 9s. I still like the 40 and think it has a place.

 

[CodeBlue]

After selling off my S&W M&P .40 last year I decided to buy another .40 but this time I want a compact for my CC. I have a XD-M 10mm duty and a XD-M .45 compact as my current carry. Fun fun.

 

[GreenHunter645]

So i just got a police surplus glock 22, gun has minimal holster wear and looks unfired for like $260, but everyone seems to hate .40 with a passion, but why?

I understand there's more recoil and it can be if it's happy, and in compact and subcompact guns it sucks to shoot, but it doesn't seem that bad in service pistols.

The ammo isn't incredibly expensive and available. It's easy enough to shoot in a a full size gun. It seems to perform better then 9mm with barrier penetration and even cheap .40 JHPs perform as well as if not better then 9mm. Even the flat nose .40 FMJ is not a horrible defensive round(over penetration aside6
).

I get people who call it .40 Short and Weak and want to carry full house 10mm and it's good for hunting. but looking at most ammunition, testing, full power 10 mm either over expands or over penetrates with most modern defensive ammunition.

And the well regarded defensive/duty JHP loadings in 10mm are running more or less at hot .40 S&W velocities.

I understand why people don't like it for concealed carry, but why all the hate?

If ai had to use it as a cop gun, or in a home defense pistol it seems like it is a good middle of the round round for that purpose

As an undercover police officer, I carried a Glock G23 for years. The .40 S&W is a fine defensive round. IMHO, it’s superior to the 9mm. I seriously doubt anyone would want to be shot with a 40 S&W.

 

[Cranerepairgreg]

I like .40. I like 9mm i like.357 and .38....i agree though, .40 is better in a service size weapon. My kahr cw.40 hurts my hand to shoot. My cz75 in .40 is one of the finest, smoothest most satisfying weapons on earth

 

[Kclark1998]

Because the lord himself gave man the 45 something something two world wars something bigger is better merica

 

[CombatShooter]

Zero .40 hate here. When ammo gets in short supply, you can always find .40.

It's a bit snappy, but I still think .40 is a fine caliber and have no plans to kick it out of my stable, just not sure I'm adding to it

Agree 100%. Same here.
I can also always convert my Sig or Glock .40 to .357sig or 9mm too,so there’s that also

 

[Griz375]

So i just got a police surplus glock 22, gun has minimal holster wear and looks unfired for like $260, but everyone seems to hate .40 with a passion, but why?

I understand there's more recoil and it can be if it's happy, and in compact and subcompact guns it sucks to shoot, but it doesn't seem that bad in service pistols.

The ammo isn't incredibly expensive and available. It's easy enough to shoot in a a full size gun. It seems to perform better then 9mm with barrier penetration and even cheap .40 JHPs perform as well as if not better then 9mm. Even the flat nose .40 FMJ is not a horrible defensive round(over penetration aside6
).

I get people who call it .40 Short and Weak and want to carry full house 10mm and it's good for hunting. but looking at most ammunition, testing, full power 10 mm either over expands or over penetrates with most modern defensive ammunition.

And the well regarded defensive/duty JHP loadings in 10mm are running more or less at hot .40 S&W velocities.

I understand why people don't like it for concealed carry, but why all the hate?

If ai had to use it as a cop gun, or in a home defense pistol it seems like it is a good middle of the round round for that purpose

No hate for .40, just no use for one. I load/shoot .38/.357, 44-40, .45ACP, 9mm, .454Casull. I think I've got sidearms covered for my applications.

For those of us who have somewhat limited resources ($$, space, time) there has to be a cutoff point.

Bear in mind I once simultaneously owned 5 different 30-06 bolt guns because they all shot better with a specific load. Likewise, there were four 7.62x51 for the same reason.

Comes a time when you just need to pick what you like and stick w/ that.

its a good theory but I just bought a 250-3000 action for some reason.

 

[1motime]

The Glock .40 police trade ins are some of the best values you’ll find. G23’s especially
For $70 more you can buy a 9mm conversion barrel and a couple 9mm mags and have a gun that shoots 2 calibers.

$330 for a Glock 22 and 17 all in one.

AimSurplus, LLC

 

[khayden65]

First handgun I ever owned was a Ruger SR40c (still have) have had the SR9c along with M&P40c (9c), CZ75-P-06 (01) P229 Legion (40 & 9) and shoot the 40 every bit as well as the 9. Other than round capacity and potential wear & tear (never had any components fail in either 9 or 40). It is my belief the 40 is a far more effective round in every aspect. Im sure many others have an exact opposite opinion and that’s fine, just my take on the 40, nothing but love here!

 

[MD Coltrane]

So i just got a police surplus glock 22, gun has minimal holster wear and looks unfired for like $260, but everyone seems to hate .40 with a passion, but why?

I understand there's more recoil and it can be if it's happy, and in compact and subcompact guns it sucks to shoot, but it doesn't seem that bad in service pistols.

The ammo isn't incredibly expensive and available. It's easy enough to shoot in a a full size gun. It seems to perform better then 9mm with barrier penetration and even cheap .40 JHPs perform as well as if not better then 9mm. Even the flat nose .40 FMJ is not a horrible defensive round(over penetration aside6
).

I get people who call it .40 Short and Weak and want to carry full house 10mm and it's good for hunting. but looking at most ammunition, testing, full power 10 mm either over expands or over penetrates with most modern defensive ammunition.

And the well regarded defensive/duty JHP loadings in 10mm are running more or less at hot .40 S&W velocities.

I understand why people don't like it for concealed carry, but why all the hate?

If ai had to use it as a cop gun, or in a home defense pistol it seems like it is a good middle of the round round for that purpose

I like .40 S&W over 9 mm just because of the energy gain with 165 gr. HP's. .45 Auto or 9 mm 124 gr. HP's don't produce this energy. I can still get enough shots off in my 4" M&P 2.0 compact .40 accurately at 15 yards to be effective. They ruled the .40 out because the FBI switched back to 9 mm. If you look around the country, a lot of departments are still carrying the .40. There is nothing wrong with the .40 S&W. Different design pistols shoot different calibers good or bad. The Glock 22 is a fine weapon. I have shot my buddy's 22 a bunch and it is easy enough to be accurate with.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There is zero reason to get wrapped up in energy numbers. Pistol bullets do not produce remote damage, there is no 'energy dump' sufficient to overcome the elasticity of human tissue, and the only way handgun bullets wound is via penetration to, and disruption of, important gibbly bits like the CNS and major blood vessels. When you get to high velocity rifle rounds that can stretch tissue fast and far enough that remote wounding does occur, then energy numbers become more relevant. None of this is new or controversial information, it's been pretty well known for at least 40 years and likely significantly longer in a less formal way.

Energy is just the capacity to do work, it doesn't tell you what that work is. Penetration, expansion, deformation? A softer alloy needs less energy to expand, so does more energy but a harder alloy matter? That's where bullet technology has improved over the years, the understanding of how to get a bullet at a given velocity to deform (like the opening of a hollow point) but still hold together and retain mass. Also why there's a floor on bullet weight that can reliably pass the entire FBI battery, not enough mass and nothing that will reliably expand will also not reliably penetrate or hold together after passing through intermediate barriers.

Find yourself a barrier blind load that reliably penetrates to vital organs, can break adult bones, resists skipping off round bone, doesn't fragment, and it'll do it's job if you do yours.

 

[D.R.SCOTT]

My personal experience is that on paper it looks great, but the in hand experience was lacking.

Basically I fired a few thousand rounds to go, huh... I don't actually like it more than a 9mm.

 

[OldBrownGun]

Because the 9mm, which everyone crapped on before suddenly got popular again, so everyone had to crap on the .40 now and convince themself the 9mm in modern loadings was equal to a .40. The .40 is a fantastic round and better then the 9mm in every way sans recoil. It is exactly what it was built to be, a middle ground between size and power. All one has to do is watch a few police videos from when they carried it to see the effectiveness of this round. Much better then doing math.

 

[BigMoose]

.40 S&W: Nearly Obsolete, Can it Make a Comeback? - Guns and Ammo

Pistols chambered in .40 S&W, a pressure-reduced version of the 10mm and one-time go-to for law enforcement, can now be readily found at bargain prices.

www.gunsandammo.com

 

[gglass]

i'm gonna ask you a question about 10mm though.

Show me a full power 700 Ft Ib + 10mm loading that doesn't penetrate deeper then 18 inches that expands more then a similar bullet in either .40 or 10mm loaded to FBI specs.

I would like to see it as it seems either the bullets over expand or the hollow point pedals peel back and the round overpenetrates.

If you watch the Paul Harrell comparison between .40 S&W and 10mm it can be seen that many manufacturers don't load 10MM any hotter than the same manufacturers .40 S&W. The good news is that the 10mm shooter will feel like a real stud as the handle that ferocious 10mm blaster with such ease. As a bonus, they get to pay 50% to 100% more to have that feeling.

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

.40 is not going anywhere. By most metrics, .38 special is somewhat inferior to 357 magnum and 9mm, but yet is still widely used by many today.

 

[mcapo]

Is 40 still king caliber in USPSA Limited major or has things changed? Not sure what divisions are popular these days...guessing optics?

Those playing the game - what's happening to 40?

 

[DadSmith]

There is zero reason to get wrapped up in energy numbers. Pistol bullets do not produce remote damage, there is no 'energy dump' sufficient to overcome the elasticity of human tissue, and the only way handgun bullets wound is via penetration to, and disruption of, important gibbly bits like the CNS and major blood vessels. When you get to high velocity rifle rounds that can stretch tissue fast and far enough that remote wounding does occur, then energy numbers become more relevant. None of this is new or controversial information, it's been pretty well known for at least 40 years and likely significantly longer in a less formal way.

Energy is just the capacity to do work, it doesn't tell you what that work is. Penetration, expansion, deformation? A softer alloy needs less energy to expand, so does more energy but a harder alloy matter? That's where bullet technology has improved over the years, the understanding of how to get a bullet at a given velocity to deform (like the opening of a hollow point) but still hold together and retain mass. Also why there's a floor on bullet weight that can reliably pass the entire FBI battery, not enough mass and nothing that will reliably expand will also not reliably penetrate or hold together after passing through intermediate barriers.

Find yourself a barrier blind load that reliably penetrates to vital organs, can break adult bones, resists skipping off round bone, doesn't fragment, and it'll do it's job if you do yours.

What is your take on this article BBI?

Stopping Power, From a Doctor's Point of View - The Truth About Guns

I’m not sure what would happen if there were no more internet discussions about “stopping power” as applied to handguns. What would we talk about? I am sure that it would be a better world, and there would be lots more available bandwidth.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[92FSTech]

You don't have to swap all of that, but of course you could if you like. Sig used to make "x-change" kits where it was just the slide. I have one for my P226 so I can swap between 9mm and .40 easily, just use the correct magazine and slide and you're gtg. Looks like they only make them for rimfire to centerfire now, though. Barsto used to make a conversion barrel, I assume they still do. They were supposed to work with just a recoil spring swap and the appropriate magazines, but I never tried it myself.

Barsto does still make a conversion barrel. I had one, and it worked fine with factory .40 springs, and even the .40 mags, although they rattled a little. The problem was that the chamber throat was very tight...even tighter than a CZ's. The bulk 9mm bullets I use for my reloads have a wide ogive, and they would stick in the lands and lock the gun up unless I seated them way deeper than I was comfortable with (these same loads work in every other 9mm I own). I even had this happen with certain types of factory ammo...mostly wide hollow points or heavier bullets. Factory 115 and 124gr ball ran fine.

I wasn't big on changing my go-to components for one specific gun, so I sold that barrel off and now just use the P229 for .40. I probably could have had the throat reamed, but this solution is cheaper and easier.