Baldwin "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger."

[actaeon277]

That is not an accident. There was intent to ignore laws and codes which led to the outcome.


Also not an accident. The person killed would have been while committing another crime.

Also from what I can find extremely rare and hard to prosecute.

Baldwin pulled the trigger.
He did not accidentally pull the trigger.

 

[Born2vette]

You didn’t listen to him. He pulled the hammer back and it fired by itself. He never pulled the trigger.

 

[BigMoose]

Mixed feelings on this one.

Maybe a bit devils advocate here. But there are some scenes in movies shot every day, that require breaking the firearm safety rules to shoot.

Namely at times during a movie, there are times where an actor must point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. So the actor has to believe that gun has been safety checked before it was handed to them. Yes Alec wasn't actually shooting the scene at the time he pointed the gun and pulled the trigger, but if he hadn't. Then it would have gone off and shot when they shot the scene they were planning to, and maybe shot someone else on set. It has happened before (Brandon Lee)

The armorer is at fault here, but I have seen stories where the production forced this person to do less armory stuff, and more prop work. (The person hired had two jobs)

I would have liked to seen some sort of legal action against this production company too, at the very least.

But there is more to this story. Production on this ill fated Rust movie was slated to start again in a few days. The timing can not be a co-incidence.

 

[Sigblitz]

It was a Cimarron revolver. And I have one. The hammer doesn't strike unless the trigger is pulled. And the cylinder doesn't turn unless you cock the hammer. Pretty, but sucks in function.

He pulled the trigger or held it in while cocking it. And him explaining it in the tv interview, creepy and stupid.

Edit: I thought I read somewhere it was a Cimarron, but I read upthread it was a F.lli Pietta long Colt 45.

 

[Born2vette]

Mixed feelings on this one.

Maybe a bit devils advocate here. But there are some scenes in movies shot every day, that require breaking the firearm safety rules to shoot.

Namely at times during a movie, there are times where an actor must point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. So the actor has to believe that gun has been safety checked before it was handed to them. Yes Alec wasn't actually shooting the scene at the time he pointed the gun and pulled the trigger, but if he hadn't. Then it would have gone off and shot when they shot the scene they were planning to, and maybe shot someone else on set. It has happened before (Brandon Lee)

The armorer is at fault here, but I have seen stories where the production forced this person to do less armory stuff, and more prop work. (The person hired had two jobs)

I would have liked to seen some sort of legal action against this production company too, at the very least.

But there is more to this story. Production on this ill fated Rust movie was slated to start again in a few days. The timing can not be a co-incidence.

Baldwin was/is the producer so he has ultimate responsibility for the production.

 

[BigMoose]

Baldwin was/is the producer so he has ultimate responsibility for the production.

Well that is true, and I could see charging him in his role as a producer.

And come to find out they fined the production company last year $100000

 

[KLB]

Baldwin pulled the trigger.
He did not accidentally pull the trigger.

Unless he meant to shoot her, it was an accident. I don't see this as a criminal matter. What does society gain by anyone going to jail for this? It is much more a civil matter in my mind.

Did they ever actually determine how the live round ended up in the gun?

 

[Butch627]

Mixed feelings on this one.

Maybe a bit devils advocate here. But there are some scenes in movies shot every day, that require breaking the firearm safety rules to shoot.

Namely at times during a movie, there are times where an actor must point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. So the actor has to believe that gun has been safety checked before it was handed to them. Yes Alec wasn't actually shooting the scene at the time he pointed the gun and pulled the trigger, but if he hadn't. Then it would have gone off and shot when they shot the scene they were planning to, and maybe shot someone else on set. It has happened before (Brandon Lee)

The armorer is at fault here, but I have seen stories where the production forced this person to do less armory stuff, and more prop work. (The person hired had two jobs)

I would have liked to seen some sort of legal action against this production company too, at the very least.

But there is more to this story. Production on this ill fated Rust movie was slated to start again in a few days. The timing can not be a co-incidence.

The gun and chambered rounds are supposed to be shown to be safe by the armorer in front of the actor, AD, and crew, All those protocols were ignored. Actor is not supposed to touch the gun until everyone on the crew witnessing this has had a chance to question the procedures. There is no disputing any of that, you have the entire filming crew as witnesses and written guides on how it is supposed to be done.
For all we know the AD may have loaded the gun and he was not supposed to even touch it. Interesting to me that he already did a plea deal.
There are many videos on Youtube by respected Armorers detailing how this is typically done. Baldwin the actor was well versed on the proper procedures from numerous other big budget movies where the protocols were properly followed.
Baldwin the Producer was the highest ranking person on the set and most responsible for proper safety protocols.
What kind of a moral compass does the dead womans husband have to leverage her death into him being made a producer on this debacle.

 

[thunderchicken]

The gun and chambered rounds are supposed to be shown to be safe by the armorer in front of the actor, AD, and crew, All those protocols were ignored. Actor is not supposed to touch the gun until everyone on the crew witnessing this has had a chance to question the procedures. There is no disputing any of that, you have the entire filming crew as witnesses and written guides on how it is supposed to be done.
For all we know the AD may have loaded the gun and he was not supposed to even touch it. Interesting to me that he already did a plea deal.
There are many videos on Youtube by respected Armorers detailing how this is typically done. Baldwin the actor was well versed on the proper procedures from numerous other big budget movies where the protocols were properly followed.
Baldwin the Producer was the highest ranking person on the set and most responsible for proper safety protocols.
What kind of a moral compass does the dead womans husband have to leverage her death into him being made a producer on this debacle.

From what you've shared on this from the beginning, proper protocol wasn't followed. If I understand correctly, the actor (and all others present) should have been shown thr gun as empty, shown any rounds (live or dummy) loaded in the gun before being handed to the actor.
If I understand that correctly, that process seems very similar to how things have been handled in some very basic training classes I've been in. Likewise, when I have assisted a first time shooter I always make sure to show them the gun empty and explain it is their responsibility to check it too. If I am going to hand them a loaded gun, I make sure they've seen me load it and prior to handing it off to them I make sure they know it is loaded and ready to shoot.
Not to mention how the actor handled the gun and where he pointed it etc.
So in my mind it simply boils down to people who are supposed to be familiar with the protocol failing to follow it. I'm not a law dog but to me it screams negligence or recklessness. I don't believe anyone had intent to harm anyone. But it sounds like a rush to meet a deadline and keep costs low was more of a priority than safety. Which is why I'm glad to see folks being held accountable for it.
It was a completely avoidable tragedy

 

[DadSmith]

Unless he meant to shoot her, it was an accident. I don't see this as a criminal matter. What does society gain by anyone going to jail for this? It is much more a civil matter in my mind.

Did they ever actually determine how the live round ended up in the gun?

I'm in agreement there.
However, that live round could have been loaded by him, and used as an excuse to kill, and possibly get by with it.
The depravity of the human mind knows no boundaries.

 

[freedomenthusiast100]

It is honestly such a preposterous situation. I mean how can anyone claim that a gun was fired without pulling the trigger. Its firearm illiterate people like this that ultimately instill fear in an ignorant population.

 

[ECS686]

Don’t believe this was mentioned. An assistant producer (or someone up the chain) as already plead guilty and is testifying against Baldwin and the Armorer.

And where the accidental shooting of Brandon Lee was not charged was due to it was a defect of the firearm where debris from a prior scene was dislodged within the bore and it wasn’t an actual bullet that killed him from what I remember and read.

Baldwin being a douch aside I don’t see these charges sticking to him. The Armorer maybe as it was on her and she like many in any industry was probably hired/promoted because of her family name and not because of any knowledge skills and abilities.

 

[KLB]

I'm in agreement there.
However, that live round could have been loaded by him, and used as an excuse to kill, and possibly get by with it.
The depravity of the human mind knows no boundaries.

True. That is why I wondered if they determined where the live round came from and how it was loaded. That could change my opinion in a hurry.

 

[Butch627]

A couple couple of points.
A dummy round is supposed to be benign, it has a bullet and has a BB inside of it. Every round is supposed to be shaken in front of everyone so they can hear the BB bouncing around inside of it.
The reason they had rounds in the gun is the B camera that they were focusing was to be primarily on the chambered rounds in the cylinder.

Since the Brandon Lee incident they now shine a flashlight or push a stick through the bore in front of everyone with a close inspection for the AD, Actor, and any crew member who wants a close look.

 

[BE Mike]

That is not an accident. There was intent to ignore laws and codes which led to the outcome.


Also not an accident. The person killed would have been while committing another crime.

Also from what I can find extremely rare and hard to prosecute.

I don't get Indianapolis local news, just that mostly related to Kentucky. The prosecutors in KY don't seem shy about charging a person, driving impaired, resulting in the death of another, with murder. Here's one of the latest, of many the past twelve months: https://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-i-264-fatal-crash-murder-driver/42484664

 

[bgcatty]

Assuming the evidence shows Baldwin did not put the loaded round in the revolver, I believe the armorer is going to take the big hit here. The armorer is the one with final responsibility for ensuring the handgun was safe for its intended use on the movie set. The armorer is the one supposedly is the one who hands the firearm to the actor and confirms the firearm is “cold”!
The only problem with Baldwin is that he does not know how to keep his mouth shut! He repeatedly stated he did not “pull the trigger” even though everyone including a blind person can see that a single action revolver can only be fired when it’s cocked and the trigger “pulled”. Remember the old saying: Loose lips sink ships!—it could really apply to Baldwin. My

 

[JCSR]

 

[Doug]

If the firearm was a "slip gun," designed for fanning the hammer, it could have fired without pulling the trigger.
If it was defective, it may be neither the full-cock notch nor half-cock notch caught the hammer.
It would require examination of the firearm to determine this.
It is more likely Baldwin had his finger in the trigger guard and was holding the trigger to the rear as he gripped the gun. He may have assumed the trigger would have to "reset" like a semi-auto pistol before it would fire or, more likely, he just didn't think at all. In his mind, holding the trigger to the rear and pulling the trigger are likely two different things.

 

[Judamonster]

So here is my take on it. I am in Construction Management. A big part of my role is workplace safety and the development of project specific safety plans. I need to understand the nature of the work and the potential dangers that exist before my guys are sent out so I know we are mitigating the jobsite risks as much as possible. We will employ a safety professional when the nature of the work or the location of the work is something we do not have experience in. This is no different than any other workplace accident. A series of unsafe events had to occur in order for the accident to occur.

First, they chose to use weapons capable of firing real projectiles instead of replica's that fire blanks only.
Second Live ammunition was allowed on set.
Third, an unknown situation in which the ammo could be mixed up was allowed. Either they were stored together, or they were shooting out back, etc.
Fourth, basic firearm safety was not understood or used.
Fifth, a live person was stationed behind a camera while a gun was pointed at it. This could have been rolling before the set was live or remotely operated to reduce the risk to an employee. To a lesser extent, this person could have also been wearing protective equipment.
Sixth, a person untrained in the safe use of firearms was employed to use the firearm.
Seventh, a firearm was discharged in the direction of a live person. (Blanks have killed actors in the past-think Brandon Lee) Even if the gun was thought to be unloaded-basic firearm safety-Treat every gun as if it is loaded and Never point a gun at something you do not intend to shoot

If any of these events/situations are removed-the accident does not happen. Who is responsible to ensure the safety of employees on the set? Alec Baldwin was in charge of the show. The armorer also has a clear responsibility here. Both are negligent to some degree. I also feel the people above Alec are responsible as they hired him to perform a task. That was their decision, and could really be step 1 in the above series of events.

 

[printcraft]

I don't get Indianapolis local news, just that mostly related to Kentucky. The prosecutors in KY don't seem shy about charging a person, driving impaired, resulting in the death of another, with murder. Here's one of the latest, of many the past twelve months: https://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-i-264-fatal-crash-murder-driver/42484664

I think the big difference is “knowingly”.
I don’t care for Baldwin but I don’t believe he “knowingly” knew the gun was loaded.