Crew member killed when shot by prop gun on set of Baldwin movie

[tackdriver]

SO whats the over/under on how long it takes him to forget this and start harping on how guns are bad and nobody needs one again?

Or uses this as example of why he is right to outlaw them. But he's so short sighted that he'd forget that if he got his way, he couldnt have made this show, and couldnt have lined his pockets. But I dont think that short sightedness would stop him.

Double-Bingo...

I'm betting that he and his take this, twist it, and double-down on why our guns should be melted. "See, another tragic death because guns exist." As for the show - "Society made me do it." "this gun crazed society craves violent entertainment and, being true artists, we were forced to give them what they want." Then, just in case those nails won't hold, they will follow up with some version of "I'm also a victim here! Because of a gun, and this evil culture, I'm emotionally traumatized for life." "The only way to ease my suffering from this is to do everything I can to eradicate guns from the world."

I've watched so many of there movies I can write the scripts for them. For them, life is just one big show, and they're the star.

 

[tackdriver]

This probably.^

I collect movie guns and there's plenty of power in blank cartridges. You see some odd things though in prop guns. I saw a Colt 1878 recently that was cobbled together from a 45lc cylinder and a 44-40 barrel, bad day if you fired it with live ammo, but blanks would be irrelevant. I came from a Fox studio auction.

If this were some sort of squib condition, how did it happen twice? I probably haven't read far enough yet, and this is answered, but...

 

[tackdriver]

... A-holes aren't always at fault for everything that goes on around them.

Yes they are. Works for me!

 

[tsm]

If this were some sort of squib condition, how did it happen twice? I probably haven't read far enough yet, and this is answered, but...

Think it was live ammo, one shot and bullet went thru the woman’s chest and got the man standing behind her in the shoulder. Doubt a blank + squib would have anywhere near enough power to do that.

 

[Alpo]

Think it was live ammo, one shot and bullet went thru the woman’s chest and got the man standing behind her in the shoulder. Doubt a blank + squib would have anywhere near enough power to do that.

In a revolver....maybe not.

As a side note, reporting from Souza who was shot said that the DP was hit in the stomach (some reports say chest) and he was hit in the shoulder.

 

[JeepHammer]

"Prop Gun" simply means the gun is 'Property' of the company providing the firearms.
They can be, and often are, fully functioning firearms.

*Some* are modified to cycle with blank ammunition, mostly semi or full autos.

The 'Prop Master' is responsible for ammunition, and therefore *Most* of the dangers with these firearms.

Read about the early days of movies,
The actual cowboys and extras had to be instructed NOT to shoot at the faces of primary actors even with blank ammunition.
Particles from the blanks burned and imbedded into actors skin, set cloths on fire, etc.

Movie blanks are different than 'Noise' blanks, they are smoky and make a longer, brighter flash that can be easily photographed.
That means particles exiting the barrel to make that extra large muzzle flash.

The one prop guy, one prop room I ever saw they had firearms on rods down the barrels (grips out).
Scratches in the barrels weren't a deal for studio prop guns.

The prop master explained the rod is long enough to confirm there is nothing in the barrel or chamber and his firearms were racked between every scene.

He also wouldn't allow any type of live ammo on set (other than blanks),
If a bullet needed to be shown, the case didn't have a primer showing it was 'Safe'.

Of course, he was a studio prop guy, member of the union, years of training and managing firearms for movie & tv use...

From what the Hollywood union statement said, they were using a guy for props that wasn't part of the union and they had no details about gun prop supplier.

The 'Head Armorer' was a 24 year old that was on her second job in that position.

'Rust' shooting: Alec Baldwin's armorer says she wasn't ready for last job

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, 24, told a podcast she almost turned down the head-armorer job in a recent project because of self-doubt about her experience.

www.insider.com

Its also being reported the same firearm was being used with hard ammo for plinking off set.
That means live, hard ammo...

Its also reported the firearm went through 'Head Armorer' to a production assistant, then to Baldwin, which means another opportunity for hard ammo to be inserted between armorer and actor.

I wouldn't want to be the detectives investigating this...

 

[Butch627]

Does the fact that he was doing a film with this low of a budget indicate he was already having troubles, or is this something many of them do?

He could have been involved for more reasons than I can count but my best guess is :
He had no money invested and they used his name to try to give it credibility. He gets producer credit and a piece of the box office. If anyone else wanted him he would not have been screwing around with this.
It is mostly a fantasy that a low budget thing like that is going to make big box office unless it becomes a cult hit like Blair Witch and then it spawns offshoots with bigger budgets

One other thing of note that I read that it was day 21 of a 25 day shoot. Generally films take a minimum of 33 filming days. A big big movie can be over 150 days. A 1 hour tv show with 42 minutes of film time takes 8 to 10 days.

 

[Leadeye]

Although I have two sons in the film business I've never understood it very well. Some shows Like Deadwood were so good you would think they would run forever like Gunsmoke, but are gone after 3 seasons. I'm sure there are financial reasons, but they escape me.

 

[Sylvain]

They don't actually punch each other in fight scenes.
They use training, and camera angles.

Why can't the same be done with aiming a gun? They can't film the angle differently?

I guess it depends how close the actors are to the gun.
For some scenes actors have a gun pointed right at their face, or even in their mouth.

You can't cheat with camera angle in that case.

 

[tackdriver]

...And "we?" No one is entitled to speak for anyone else, much less everyone else. ...

...Again with the royal "we." Speak for yourself. Anything else is accusation and assumption. ...

Regardless, no one said that. No one else, that is. Accusing "we" of saying so, only to scold or accuse is textbook strawman, and gets no quarter.

Based on the assertion that speculation is ok but assumptions are not, then if one of us is entitled to speculate, "we" all are. The fact that the person in question has campaigned against Americans' rights, insulted vast swaths of the population for their beliefs, and apparently is an a**hole in general will obviously and understandably subdue sympathy from many, independent of judgement of the situation.

I'll stand *by* that observation.

"We the people..."
"We hold these truths to be self evident..."

Again with the royal "we"

 

[tackdriver]

Think it was live ammo, one shot and bullet went thru the woman’s chest and got the man standing behind her in the shoulder. Doubt a blank + squib would have anywhere near enough power to do that.

Thanks for that. REading more, there are comments about a live round. Makes more sense than some sort of blank situation, where every conceiveable star was in perfect alighnment, and this guy just happened to be standing behind the trigger.

 

[Sylvain]

I disagree.
The gun should have been put down.
And someone should have "guarded" it.
The gun is NOT just going to go off by itself, while laying there.
To do otherwise is "disturbing" the scene.

Like you mentioned people are on the set are a bunch of idiots with no proper gun training.

I would not trust someone to not pick the gun up, and of course it would "go off" again.
And you would have a third victim ...

If I was there as a first responder I would want that gun unloaded, or I would take possession of it (probably both).

I would not trust any of those folks especially now that we all know it's amateur hour when it comes to gun safety on the set.
Even the folks who should be trained (like the armorer) seem to be inept at their job.

Of course if you had actual trained and trustworthy people around (like a police officer) you could have the gun guarded as you say.

It all depends on how many people are there, who they are, if they are panicked from the incident etc.

 

[Butch627]

Like you mentioned people are on the set are a bunch of idiots with no proper gun training.

I would not trust someone to not pick the gun up, and of course it would "go off" again.
And you would have a third victim ...

If I was there as a first responder I would want that gun unloaded, or I would take possession of it (probably both).

I would not trust any of those folks especially now that we all know it's amateur hour when it comes to gun safety on the set.
Even the folks who should be trained (like the armorer) seem to be inept at their job.

Of course if you had actual trained and trustworthy people around (like a police officer) you could have the gun guarded as you say.

It all depends on how many people are there, who they are, if they are panicked from the incident etc.

Do not equate that set with all sets unless you have been to quite a few of them and seen the behavior that went on there

 

[JCSR]

In the industrial settings I have worked in if an incident such as injury or damage of property everyone involved were drug tested. Is this normal procedure on movie sets? Does OSHA oversee this industry?

 

[Twangbanger]

The chain-of-custody seems to have been Armorer >> Assistant Director >> Actor (the "practicing cross-draw" reference is also made here):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ointed-gun-camera-weapon-fired-rehearsal.html

 

[Sylvain]

Do not equate that set with all sets unless you have been to quite a few of them and seen the behavior that went on there

I'm just talking about this particular film crew, only based on things (true or not) that I've read in newspapers.

I know you can't trust them with guns.That seems to be a solid fact.

It's not a personal attack on you, nor does it reflect my views on the entire movie industry.

I've been to adult film sets, where you also have NDs but it's not as dangerous for the rest of the crew.

 

[Leadeye]

In the industrial settings I have worked in if an incident such as injury or damage of property everyone involved were drug tested. Is this normal procedure on movie sets? Does OSHA oversee this industry?

Good question, I've seen that as well.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm just talking about this particular film crew, only based on things (true or not) that I've read in newspapers.

I know you can't trust them with guns.That seems to be a solid fact.

It's not a personal attack on you, nor does it reflect my views on the entire movie industry.

I've been to adult film sets, where you also have NDs but it's not as dangerous for the rest of the crew.

Takes longer to reload after an ND in that business I imagine.

 

[JCSR]

Good question, I've seen that as well.

I would be interesting to see who may have had a drink or a toke during the lunch break.

 

[printcraft]

The chain-of-custody seems to have been Armorer >> Assistant Director >> Actor (the "practicing cross-draw" reference is also made here):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ointed-gun-camera-weapon-fired-rehearsal.html

It went off by itself.