Is the "Lead Problem" Unsolvable for the Gun Culture?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    Where does lead come from? It is an element, not a compound from some mystic scientist creation. It comes from the ground. A problem is it's concentration in areas that do not have natural deposits. For many years firms like Gene Sears Company out of Oklahoma have been mining lead shot from trap ranges and dirt fill back stops. This is certainly not anything new. That pretty much takes care of the football field sized drop zone. It is not very difficult to monitor when a drop zone is ripe for mining, plus the club actually makes money, reselling their share of the recovered shot.

    From a personal safety concern, shooting ranges have done a good job preventing particulate concentrations for the shooters. Regulation already exists to force this, even if an indoor range would be slack in this area. Personal safety is not new, even when I started shooting and reloading in the early 70's, there were warnings against eating and drinking on the line, washing your hands, etc. Basic and effective. I still see a bubba or two set up a propane grill next to the shooting pavillion for a day outing. That is not a lead problem, but a personal choice.

    When the city of Chicago shut down the Rod and Gun club that shot over the lake, the anti gun politicos were on the TV talking about the 100's of millions for the taxpayer cost to clean up. Within days, there were legal filings by all the salvage companies who wanted to mine the shot deposits. Do the math, a ton of shot every weekend for 100 years on a fallout area the size of three football fields. Pretty easy recovery.

    Lead is stable before it is broken down by other chemicals. In the case of birds and fish, digestive juices caused a problem. Waterfowl hunters have been using non toxic shot for decades.

    Today's instrumentation is sensitive enough to register lead presence pretty much everywhere on the planet. That is exactly the tool the anti gun bunch love to use to justify their ends. Of course there is the "save the children" crowd. I grew up in old buildings full of lead paint, but was taught not to eat the windowsills. Sounds like a parent problem.

    Lead "problem", I do not see it.
     
    Last edited:

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    I have just thought of a place that a do see lead as problematic. 230 grains of lead injected by force in my ventricle or aorta would definitely constitute a "lead problem".
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    Wasn't lead elimanated from primers quite a few years ago? I promise not to be offended if I am corrected on this.

    There has been "NT" (non toxic) ammo for several years, but the run of the mill primers still have some toxic danger. PMC actually marketed some totally lead free primers about 10 years ago, but I have not seen any in 9 years. The very hazardous primers that were also corrosive started disappearing during WWII. I am not aware of any corrosive primers staying in production even in the 1960's. In addition, many jacketed bullets used to have open lead at the base, pretty much all the new designs are encapsulated lead. We are not totally non toxic yet, but the hazard of vaporized lead has been minimized.
     

    Thegeek

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 20, 2013
    2,061
    63
    Indianapolis
    My cousin is a chemical engineer who specializes in polymers. He and I were talking a couple years ago and he's working on a solution. This was shortly after the California ban on lead.

    Here's the requirements he's trying to meet. Maleability and weight similar to lead. Mass density similar to lead. Able to withstand the forces of being shot (not being ripped apart by rotation). Does not violate any existing rules (no solid core, etc.). Biodegradable.

    At this point, he's got 4 of the 5. He said weight is the difficult one. He had a few 9mm projectile prototypes but they were only 65gr. He's toying with powdered tungsten to get the weight up, but he's really in this for the money and says while it would work would raise the price per unit to an unmarketable level. I'm sure he'll solve it in a couple more years.....
     

    Expat

    Pdub
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Feb 27, 2010
    109,602
    113
    Michiana
    The shot shell manufacturers have been working on the problem for many years for water fowling. What they have still isn't lead but it is better than it used to be.
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    The shot shell manufacturers have been working on the problem for many years for water fowling. What they have still isn't lead but it is better than it used to be.

    The Bizmuth shotgun shells perform pretty well in the hunting field, but are way too pricey for trap and skeet target shooting.
     

    Libertarian01

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 12, 2009
    6,014
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Wasn't lead elimanated from primers quite a few years ago? I promise not to be offended if I am corrected on this.


    The number I heard was 40% of the primer was lead. This gets vaporized and as we shoot tens or hundreds or thousands of rounds at the range we breath in the particulates and there is the issue.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,888
    113
    .
    The lead issue is just a tool, one of many used by groups that are committed to total gun abolition. Lead chromate yellow is in traffic paint all over the country and I have yet to see a crusade to dig up the highways to replace it. Every year they just put more new on top of the old.
     

    Sticky

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 22, 2011
    497
    18
    central IN
    If Mike Venturino and Elmer Keith never suffered from lead poisoning, then as a shooter and caster, most of us should be o.k. My google-interwebz skillz aren't up to finding out that information...
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,626
    113
    Gtown-ish
    UMC makes (made? I haven't seen it available post Sandy Hook) a "leadless" ammo that isn't really leadless. It uses a leadless primer and the bullet's jacket encapsulates the base so that when it's fired there's no lead dust. Of course the bullet itself is lead. I used to get it by the case back in the day. It was generally cheaper than, say, federal champion.

    The problem was that it's probably a pain for reloaders. The primer isn't a standard size.

    ETA: Forgot to mention. Speer made a "leadless" version of the Lawman ammo. I haven't seen it lately either. It was essentially the same concept as the UMC.
     
    Last edited:

    AmmoManAaron

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    37   0   0
    Feb 20, 2015
    3,334
    83
    I-get-around
    Wasn't lead elimanated from primers quite a few years ago? I promise not to be offended if I am corrected on this.

    Lead styphnate and lead azide are two of the main primer compounds in use. They are non-corrosive and reliable. Development of lead-free replacements has been technically successful, but expense remains a problem. Their shelf life and reliability are somewhat unproven but, for what it's worth, I recently used some of the old (discontinued about 10 years ago) PMC "non-tox" primers with 100% success.
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
    113
    The lead issue is just a tool, one of many used by groups that are committed to total gun abolition. Lead chromate yellow is in traffic paint all over the country and I have yet to see a crusade to dig up the highways to replace it. Every year they just put more new on top of the old.

    :+1:

    Exactly! Now, let me add that the left is raising hell about people they clearly want rid of being poisoned, more so than they have raised about such issues as children being poisoned by the Flint, Michigan water supply.

    Obviously this has nothing to do with anyone's well-being, but rather stands as a convenient and fashionable route to attack gun ownership and/or use.
     
    Top Bottom