Alcohol on a rifle range

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't think alcohol and shooting mix either. All this talk about giving up freedom... really? Let's think about this for a minute. Have you ever read some of the warning labels that are on everyday items? Take a lawnmower for example. Do you really need to be told that there are "rotating blades" under the deck and little pictures warning you of what could happen if you stick your hand (and apparently your entire leg judging by some of those little pictures) under there while the mower is running? "Of course not!" you say. However, did you ever stop to think how those warning labels came to be put on mowers? It's because some idiot decided that it was a good idea to stick one of his/her appendages in a rotating blade. Humans do stupid all the time, and all on their own. Anything that can be done to help mitigate the chances of that stupid causing harm to them or the people around them is probably a good idea in some cases.

Here are some examples:

Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly.
Child-Sized Superman Costume


Caution: Never aim spray at your own eyes.
Unknown Pepper Spray

Do not ingest.
Unknown Lava Lamp

Ignite lighter away from face.
Bic Lighter

Do not attempt to stick head inside deck, which may result in injury.
Japanese GameCube Instruction Manual

Before installing this fanbelt, be sure you shut off the engine as it may cause irreversible injury
Unknown Car Fanbelt

Do not attempt to stop chain with hands.
Jonsreds Chainsaw

Caution: Avoid dropping air conditioners out of windows.
Unknown Air Conditioner

Use for sex only – not to be eaten
Trojan Condoms

 

[Cemetery-man]

No alcohal. Not in designated areas, even.

Gun owners in the past must have been more responsible than those today. Or maybe they just held their liquor better.

 

[churchmouse]

Incorrect. Rather than redefine the word, perhaps choose one more suitable.

OK. I do not want to get into a light saber wielding argument so I will ask you to define what you mean.
I am aware you have a deep knowledge of such things so enlighten me please.

My "Understanding" of this is I am good to go with what ever I care to do as long as it does not directly impact those around me such as safety.
If I am wrong I may need to get into my pocket edition of the constitution and do some reading.

 

[jrainw]

Shot a match in Tennessee that once you were done shooting for the day you could have a beer. My scorer had a beer while scoring me and he did fine, I cross fired an X for my first shot off hand. Hmmm
I wasn't bothered by his drinking, and I needed one after that.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Humans do stupid all the time, and all on their own. Anything that can be done to help mitigate the chances of that stupid causing harm to them or the people around them is probably a good idea in some cases.

Here are some examples:

Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly.
Child-Sized Superman Costume


Caution: Never aim spray at your own eyes.
Unknown Pepper Spray

Do not ingest.
Unknown Lava Lamp

Ignite lighter away from face.
Bic Lighter

Do not attempt to stick head inside deck, which may result in injury.
Japanese GameCube Instruction Manual

Before installing this fanbelt, be sure you shut off the engine as it may cause irreversible injury
Unknown Car Fanbelt

Do not attempt to stop chain with hands.
Jonsreds Chainsaw

Caution: Avoid dropping air conditioners out of windows.
Unknown Air Conditioner

Use for sex only – not to be eaten
Trojan Condoms

You should add banning firearms to that list. Afterall, humans can't be trusted.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You should add banning firearms to that list. Afterall, humans can't be trusted.

I never advocated banning anything. I'm not suggesting that no one should use alcohol. I'm saying that there are safe ways/places to use it, and the gun range isn't one of them. Just as we have the 4 rules to help (if we follow them) mitigate the chances that we'll do something stupid and hurt ourselves or others with our firearms.

Would you say that allowing children to play downrange during live fire is prudent? I mean, you're free to do so, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. It's unsafe. Using alcohol is no different.

 

[tbhausen]

I don't think alcohol and shooting mix either. All this talk about giving up freedom... really? Let's think about this for a minute. Have you ever read some of the warning labels that are on everyday items? Take a lawnmower for example. Do you really need to be told that there are "rotating blades" under the deck and little pictures warning you of what could happen if you stick your hand (and apparently your entire leg judging by some of those little pictures) under there while the mower is running? "Of course not!" you say. However, did you ever stop to think how those warning labels came to be put on mowers? It's because some idiot decided that it was a good idea to stick one of his/her appendages in a rotating blade. Humans do stupid all the time, and all on their own. Anything that can be done to help mitigate the chances of that stupid causing harm to them or the people around them is probably a good idea in some cases.

Here are some examples:

Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly.
Child-Sized Superman Costume


Caution: Never aim spray at your own eyes.
Unknown Pepper Spray

Do not ingest.
Unknown Lava Lamp

Ignite lighter away from face.
Bic Lighter

Do not attempt to stick head inside deck, which may result in injury.
Japanese GameCube Instruction Manual

Before installing this fanbelt, be sure you shut off the engine as it may cause irreversible injury
Unknown Car Fanbelt

Do not attempt to stop chain with hands.
Jonsreds Chainsaw

Caution: Avoid dropping air conditioners out of windows.
Unknown Air Conditioner

Use for sex only – not to be eaten
Trojan Condoms

Have you (or everyone else) ever had a beer while cutting your grass?

I'm not advocating drinking while shooting, I'm speaking about the pitfalls of speaking in absolutes, supporting absolutes, and how that ultimately results in loss of freedoms.

 

[tbhausen]

You should add banning firearms to that list. Afterall, humans can't be trusted.

BINGO.

 

[tbhausen]

Alcohol CAN be and IS used safely many places everyday. Even before driving.

 

[Snapdragon]

Again, cutting grass, like cutting a steak, is likely not going to result in the injury or death of an innocent bystander.

It's a safety rule that ensures that everyone adheres to the same standards of behavior for the public good. How come nobody cries foul when they have to stop at a stop sign or drive on the right side of the road? Your liberty is being taken away there also.

 

[tbhausen]

Edit: missed the "foul".

We (mostly) do fine at four-way stops when left to our own responsible selves to work it out. Maybe they should all be replaced with traffic lights so we can wait when there's no need to.

 

[ATM]

OK. I do not want to get into a light saber wielding argument so I will ask you to define what you mean.
I am aware you have a deep knowledge of such things so enlighten me please.

My "Understanding" of this is I am good to go with what ever I care to do as long as it does not directly impact those around me such as safety.
If I am wrong I may need to get into my pocket edition of the constitution and do some reading.

Freedom is simply something different, maybe something less than what it seemed you were describing. I love to challenge the distinctions of my favorite words just to get people thinking about them.

I grabbed a couple dictionary definitions for freedom which seem suitable to me:

a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action
b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence

Any undue coupling with further notions, even noble ones, like respect, responsibility, accountability or stewardship, fundamentally modify its meaning and common association.

The essence of freedom should not be seen as any of those noble things, for our government is currently far more free in definition than we the individual people - not at all a good thing. Our government was not created to be free, the design actually called for shackles of constraint.

...and back on topic (sorta kinda), I choose not to drink

...because I am free.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Alcohol CAN be and IS used safely many places everyday. Even before driving.

I'm a pretty good shot. I bet I can shoot an apple off your head at 100 yards. You trust me, right? You have no qualms about letting me do it? What if I tell you it's safe and that I've done it hundreds of times?

Here's the thing. Maybe YOU can limit yourself to one beer before or while shooting and be just fine. Maybe that guy next to you can too, or maybe he can't stop at one and feels the need to drink 12 before he gets to the range, and continue to drink while he's shooting. That's still okay with you? My point is, I don't know how much anyone else is going to drink, or how responsible they are (drinking or not, that's a risk, but one I'm much more willing to take if I have reasonable expectations that they're not drinking). If I'm talking in absolutes, it's only that I absolutely will not knowingly put myself in that situation. You feel free to do as you please.


P.S. I'm really not that good of a shot. If we ever meet and I want you to let me shoot an apple off your head, just say NO.

 

[tbhausen]

I'm a pretty good shot. I bet I can shoot an apple off your head at 100 yards. You trust me, right? You have no qualms about letting me do it? What if I tell you it's safe and that I've done it hundreds of times?

Here's the thing. Maybe YOU can limit yourself to one beer before or while shooting and be just fine. Maybe that guy next to you can too, or maybe he can't stop at one and feels the need to drink 12 before he gets to the range, and continue to drink while he's shooting. That's still okay with you? My point is, I don't know how much anyone else is going to drink, or how responsible they are (drinking or not, that's a risk, but one I'm much more willing to take if I have reasonable expectations that they're not drinking). If I'm talking in absolutes, it's only that I absolutely will not knowingly put myself in that situation. You feel free to do as you please.


P.S. I'm really not that good of a shot. If we ever meet and I want you to let me shoot an apple off your head, just say NO.

Hypothetical: Joe Six Pack arrives home from work and cracks open a beer. Five minutes later an intruder breaks his door down. Should his weapon be locked in his safe?

I make this admittedly extreme example not to imply support for being able to drink while shooting at a range, but to make a point about absolutes. I understand the differences (home vs. private property, SD vs. practice or competition or training, one vs. potentially multiple drinking shooters, public perception, legal issues, etc.)... I think it would be great to have a beer with the boys after the guns were put up or the range had closed. The fact that this concept is so taboo only points up the fact that none of us are trusted to be responsible for our own actions due to the irresponsibility of the few, and many of us not only willingly concede, but offer overt support of such regulation. To my way of thinking, that's only a short step away, conceptually, from banning firearms entirely by the same justification.

Many people aren't nearly aware and protective enough of their own freedom IMHO.

I don't advocate drinking while shooting and no, you can't shoot an apple off my head whether you're sober or not

 

[Lebowski]

Public range? No booze.

Private range? Booze if you want.

Hunter S. Thomspon had a gun bartender. Get a full auto rifle and a shot of bourbon.




Image above from this Hunter S. Thompson interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKq5wmCz0wM

 

[mikefraz]

If you really feel you need to drink while shooting and drinking can't wait and that you can't possibly have fun while shooting without drinking, you my friend, are probably an alcoholic.

 

[trailrider]

My shooting bench has a beer holder. I regularly drink a few beers while long range shooting as it relaxes me. Also drink a few while shooting clays.

I understand this is a different situation as it is private property but my point is that it IS possible to enjoy a few adult beverages with guns responsibly.

 

[pilgrim]

We shoot on private property and no booze till shutdown and guns put away for the night. Although we had a shooter (NRA Field Rep) haul a 12 pack out on the range while shooting. should have took a photo and sent it to the NRA.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Have you (or everyone else) ever had a beer while cutting your grass?

I'm not advocating drinking while shooting, I'm speaking about the pitfalls of speaking in absolutes, supporting absolutes, and how that ultimately results in loss of freedoms.

Ding ding, we have a winner. This man gets it.

Again, cutting grass, like cutting a steak, is likely not going to result in the injury or death of an innocent bystander.

I guess it depends on what probabilities you consider "likely".

I'm certainly not advocating for people to drink a case and go to the range. However, if I see someone having some beers while I'm at the range and the individual(s) are behaving responsibly, I'm certainly not going to freak out or leave. I like to base these judgements on an individual's actual behavior, not what could happen.

 

[tbhausen]

If you really feel you need to drink while shooting and drinking can't wait and that you can't possibly have fun while shooting without drinking, you my friend, are probably an alcoholic.

Are you aiming this at anyone in particular?

On a personal note, I've been house and pet-sitting for a week with exactly one bottle of beer on hand.