value in running a reddot on a carry peice

42769vette · Jun 20, 2012

value in running a reddot on a carry piece

your thoughts

esrice · Jun 20, 2012

For reference, the discussion started here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/accessories_and_gear/220217-review_vortex_razor_red_dot.html

Mosinguy · Jun 20, 2012

Not much value I'd think. Plus a handgun red dot is $300+. Add $300 to whatever your carry piece cost anyways and then think about how well the police would handle you gun.

iChokePeople · Jun 20, 2012

Mosinguy said:
Not much value I'd think. Plus a handgun red dot is $300+. Add $300 to whatever your carry piece cost anyways and then think about how well the police would handle you gun.

Personally, I place zero value in that part of the argument -- if I have to use my gun in a self-defense situation, I want the best one I can get, with every advantage possible. You can always buy another gun.

OneBadV8 · Jun 20, 2012

iChokePeople said:
Personally, I place zero value in that part of the argument -- if I have to use my gun in a self-defense situation, I want the best one I can get, with every advantage possible. You can always buy another gun.

It'll provide a better site picture and if you practice with it more, better shot placement. I like the idea, I do wish they'd come down so I could put one on my backup too. I like them to match exactly.

indyjoe · Jun 20, 2012

I can't see myself ever doing it. There are a few failure modes with my metal night sights on a carry pistol. One is degrading of the Tritium, at a known 12 year half life. The other is falling off. Putting hundreds of rounds down the pipe and practicing single hand racks, etc. have proven to me that they are solid.

Now the failure modes of a red dot rear sight. Battery, impact, covering emitter, turning off automatically, dot too bright or too dim for current situation. Lack of common over the top power stroking of the slide.

I don't envision me being in a situation where a red dot will be much of an advantage. If the distance is large enough that I'm seeing an advantage, I'm most likely bugging out. Any potential advantage of the red dot becomes a liability in time, if I have to touch anything.

In most self defense situations, you could get good hits by sighting down a slide with no sights on it. I see a red dot more of a tool for gun games.

42769vette · Jun 20, 2012

Mosinguy said:
Not much value I'd think. Plus a handgun red dot is $300+. Add $300 to whatever your carry piece cost anyways and then think about how well the police would handle you gun.

im not exactly sure where i stand on the topic, but i do know this argument doesnt weigh into my decision making process.

for me the benifit is more precise longer range shots. it was said in the other thread that if the bad gun is that far away he is not a threat. i cant agree with that statement. if the bad guy has a pistol and is lobbing rounds at me from 75 yards imo he is a threat even if his chances are slim of being sucessfull there is still a chance

iChokePeople · Jun 20, 2012

indyjoe said:
I can't see myself ever doing it. There are a few failure modes with my metal night sights on a carry pistol. One is degrading of the Tritium, at a known 12 year half life. The other is falling off. Putting hundreds of rounds down the pipe and practicing single hand racks, etc. have proven to me that they are solid.

Now the failure modes of a red dot rear sight. Battery, impact, covering emitter, turning off automatically, dot too bright or too dim for current situation. Lack of common over the top power stroking of the slide.

Why do you see RDS and irons as mutually exclusive? You can set up an RDS to cowitness with irons on a pistol just like on a rifle.

indyjoe · Jun 20, 2012

iChokePeople said:
Why do you see RDS and irons as mutually exclusive? You can set up an RDS to cowitness with irons on a pistol just like on a rifle.

The discussion for this started with a RDS that essentially replaced a rear sight. I guess that is what got me in that mindset.

I'm for tools that are simple and work well. I don't see a real advantage for a RDS or laser at typical self defense distances.

OneBadV8 · Jun 20, 2012

indyjoe said:
The discussion for this started with a RDS that essentially replaced a rear sight. I guess that is what got me in that mindset.

I'm for tools that are simple and work well. I don't see a real advantage for a RDS or laser at typical self defense distances.

Modified shooting angles and other awkward positions would make a Red Dot or a laser for that matter extremely valuable. Maybe you wouldn't be able to get that perfect site picture based on any number of reasons and this would be very helpful in those situtations.

Oh yeah, and that whole being under stress thing.

esrice · Jun 20, 2012

As I've already said in the other thread, I'm still forming my opinions on the issue. Having some time behind the trigger of such a rig has helped give me an idea of its strengths and weaknesses.

Regardless of my eventual feelings on their validity on carry guns, I do believe they are the wave of the future, and that we'll continue to see a trend toward optics made specifically for defensive pistols. I predict that in the future we'll see a priority put on making them even smaller and lower-profile. I envision something built-in to the actual slide, with just a tiny window poking up.

Perhaps even one day we won't have a need to project the dot onto glass, but could rather have it suspended holographically just above the slide.

iChokePeople · Jun 20, 2012

esrice said:
Perhaps even one day we won't have a need to project the dot onto glass, but could rather have it suspended holographically just above the slide.

Tomfoolery!

esrice · Jun 20, 2012

For anyone interested in TSD's explanation on the subject: Red Dot Pistols | TSD Combat Systems

themadmedic · Jun 20, 2012

iChokePeople said:
Personally, I place zero value in that part of the argument -- if I have to use my gun in a self-defense situation, I want the best one I can get, with every advantage possible. You can always buy another gun.

I do scratch my head though when the topic of cost comes up and the concern of having an expensive weapon tied up in the evidence room if it is used in a self defense shooting. Carry what you trust, what shoots well and is reliable and that weapon will do its part to keep you alive to complain about it being tied up in evidence-which I will take any day over having my next of kin having to decide what to do with what's left after I am gone.

I don't see a role for pistol optics on a carry weapon, but that is my opinion. It isn't what I have trained with and don't have a current need for it in a personal protection setup. It isn't like a rifle/carbine application where you may need to stretch the shooting distances out as well as acquire close in targets also.

lovemachine · Jun 20, 2012

I'm going back and forth on it. I really want to put a Trijicon RMR on my Glock 19.

I know I'm looking at around $1000. And I think it may be worth it. But I'm still researching the pros and cons.

Titanium_Frost · Jun 20, 2012

I've never shot a pistol with a red dot but I'm not 100% thrilled with them on rifles. My shotgun was really fun with one but I never really shot it in competition or thouroughly trained while it was on there and I broke the mount removing it when I DID compete with the shotgun.

I have had (cheap) red dots on my AR and my AK and didn't really seem to pick up any significant speed or accuracy with them. Right now both my rifles wear irons.

I can see a LOT of downsides to having an electronic sight on a pistol, but are they balanced by the few upsides? :dunno:

harrisonpainter · Jun 20, 2012

I would love to try one out but not sure it offers that much of an edge over night sights for EDC. Still, I think this is going on my "want" list! LOL

indyjoe · Jun 20, 2012

With the size of the RDS on a combat pistol, I don't see how you can line up the dot when you are much different than lining up the sights. I guess I would have to try it to see. I haven't seen a picture of a setup that allows co witnessing with normal sights. It would definitely be interesting to try out a setup like that.

iChokePeople · Jun 20, 2012

I was skeptical, tried it, became a serious believer.

youngda9 · Jun 20, 2012

"-1" as far as I am concerned.

Detracts from proper sight alighment, aquisition, and relying on the sights.
Can run out of batteries.
Can break with jarring.
Requires you to focus on your sights more than the target.

Laser, I know...but still funny.

value in running a reddot on a carry peice

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